Arvinode system reproduction

    Charles, I have the pictures ,sorry they are not digital. The bar across the top was actually a piece of angle type medal (more like a channel ) Sadly ,we discarded the pieces when it was discovered noone could reproduce or made that style exhaust. The pictures I sent to you are the only one I took of the car. Wish I had the opportunity to place it on a rack and take pics before we disassembeled the car for restortation. From what I have seen from Ford records, the system was too loud for many and was replaced with turbo type mufflers. It would be neat to mate that exhaust with the car to make it more like it was when contructed.

    289Kford < You are referring to me and my 65 fastback that you saw in Youngstown. The car originaly came with the Arvinode system but it currently has the turbo style muffler. Please all K code owenrs come to the National Mustang show here in Columbus Ohio in June and we can compare notes. I hope that someone starts to reproduce the sytstem.

    Is a January 1965, San Jose K-car supposed to have an Arvinode system?


    I am pretty sure the system on my car was the more conventional GT-style system with "64" date codes stamped in the mufflers.


    Could it have been a dealer/warranty replacement system?

    Based on the documentation we have in parts books and technical service bulletins the Arvin system would have been used during the following periods of assembly:


    Dearborn & Metuchen cars: 10/15/64 to 04/02/65

    San Jose cars: 10/15/64 to 04/04/65


    There will be exceptions:


    Transverse Duals: Based on conversations with a former Ford plant manager in San Jose there may well be SJ cars that received the transverse system due to materials shortages on the West Coast. There was clearly a surplus of the transverse muffler produced as we have seen many NOS units with the 10/64 date code sold on ebay and at swap meets.


    GT Duals: The Arvin system was replaced in production with the GT Dual In-Line system when the GT was introduced in April of '65. It would be logical that the GT introduction would be consistent with the cut-off dates for the Arvin system listed above. I do not have specifics on the first GT production date; perhaps someone with more detailed GT information can contribute there. That date should be in Jim Smart's Production Guide.


    Edited by - round2K on 01/31/2008 05:33:47

    round2k,


    While I am not an Acoustics Engineer - I am an Electrical Engineer and know a little about resonance and wave attenuation.


    The goal of the extra tube is a 1/4 wave length "wave guide" to create a wave attenuation channel. These were used all the time in the old days for Radar Microwaves.


    The key to your system will be getting the "pitch" right (sound pressure level) - which means frequency matching the "attenuation tube" to the sound frequency of the engine so that you get wave cancellation.


    OK - now for the easy part without all the big words.


    Here is how I would "prototype" the system - you will need everything in the car with a relatively good tuned motor. Get a sound pressure meter (you can buy one at Radio Shack). You will need to make what looks like a slide trombone for the attenuation tube on the muffler. Find 2 pieces of pipe that fit ID to OD really really tight - but that will still slide with thick axle grease between them - one end is closed up and the other goes into the muffler. You will want at least 6-12 inches of movement either direction with a good rough estimate of the proper tube length being in the middle. It doesn't have to be exact - just in the ball park - then put your "slide" attenuation tube in the middle - start the car and measure the sound pressure level. As you move the slide in or out the "sound" will change - you will see this as you take measurements with the sound meter. You are looking for the "noise attenuation point" - the slide position where you get the lowest sound pressure reading - this is the proper tube length to create a 1/4 wave attenuation of the exhaust noise.


    If you have more questions please let me know. I did something very similar to this with Microwaves in college - physics are the same between sound waves and microwaves - only the overall system sizes change.

    There is one item missing - the attenuated frequency (aka RPM). The original system was designed to silence a loud exhaust at normal operating speeds, which I would assume would be between 2000 and 3000 RPM, e.g. city driving. At a lower RPM, there is less exhaust noise because there is less engine activity. Over 3000 RPM (again assumed), the noise level falls into the classification of 'who cares', I'm on a freeway and I want the 'sounds'. So at what engine RPM is the 'slide trombone' test done? What is the noise effect at different RPMs? What are the HP and torque with and without the system?

    Jim

    Is it possible that originally most of the preproduction testing was done by using motors fitted to a dyno? That way the testing could be done at various RPM's in a controlled environment, and final testing done on the vehicle during road tests.

    Dang, you guys are making me want to install this exhaust system on my kar. Sure wish it was a concours correct system on a 66! You get this all worked out and once I get my grille medallion and am showing in conservator (and driving the kar more) I would rip my current exhaust in a heartbeat...

    More of the story:


    I approached Joe Tonietto at Waldron's Antique Exhaust about this project before I was able to find any of the former Arvin folks. Joe was interested and enthusiastic about the project and was willing to give it a shot, even with the absence of plans. Now we have the Arvin connection!


    Today we had a terrific session with Jim Abbott, the retired superintendent from the Arvin prototype shop, and Dick Irwin. We owe a special debt of gratitude to Dick Irwin. Dick's dad, Benjamin Irwin, filed the Arvin patent in 1963 together with Ed Ludlow. Dick has been championing this project from day one and is as interested in seeing the sytem reproduced as we are. Dick is also responsible for recruiting Jim Abbott. Jim, who is 73, is helping us obtain spec sheets and plans of the original design. He also has an encylopedic knowledge of the system and it is all from first hand experience as the guy that built the real deal for Arvin.


    The systems were tuned on a chassis dyno prior to production. Noise reduction was optimized based on specific speed/load combinations. There was a "trombone" mechanism built into the muffler that two men operated while the car was in the dyno to obtain the optimum combination with the Quincke tube.


    Jim has located the drawings for the rear resonator and hopes to have the front muffler plans next week. Jim has been generous in fielding many questions from us and he's digging down deep to remember details from over 40 years ago.


    This a good team effort and the more people contribute the better it gets:


    Charles Turner let me pester him about the Arvin system for the last three years and posted those pictures of the junked system.


    Ditto that for Bob Mannel, who patiently answered many, many questions. Bob's book is the bible and has more Arvin exhaust information than any other publication.


    Karl Seifert posted the Herschel-Quincke stuff which led to the Irwin & Ludlow patent for Arvin.


    The patent led to Dick Irwin, who generously introduced us to Jim Abbott.


    RalphJr posted the piece about tuning, which led to a discussion about the dyno tuning "trombone".


    Now we have Joe working directly with Jim and you couldn't ask for a better pair of guys for the task.


    The prototype arrived today. Joe produced it before we had all the information we have now, so there will undoubtedly be changes. This weekend I will test fit the system, record the sound, then ship it back to Joe. I will find a way to get wav files of the early transverse system I currently have and the prototype posted.


    At some point we're going to need an original K code in the Michigan area for an installation at Joe's shop. If I could afford to send my car back I would, but that's not in the budget. When we get the local K code to Joe's place and do that installation Jim Abbott and Dick Irwin are going to be there to hear the finished product. That could really be a fun event and I hope some of us can join them. If you are within driving distance of Joe's shop and are interested in being the test car please send me a PM.


    If you want to be put on the interest list for the system email Waldron's Antique Exhaust using the link below. There is still no idea of what it will cost yet. When it is ready for the market you will be dealing with Waldron's or possibly a bigger outfit like NPD or Mustangs Plus if they cut a deal with Joe. I know we will be treated fairly and am not worried about Joe building a good system as he is as passionate about this stuff as we are. The system will also be built with material that will last, not rolled steel like the originals.


    BTW: You will be in good company as Jay Leno is one of Joe's cusomters.


    http://www.jaylenosgarage.com/video/video_pl…html?vid=190235


    http://www.waldronexhaust.com/shop/contact_us.php


    Edited by - round2K on 01/31/2008 19:14:53

    This is a gigantic breakthrough and highlights both the passion of the members and the HiPo exchange itself. The fruits of this passion will be the return of the sweetest sound, once lost but soon to be found again, eminating from our beloved Mustangs!!<img src=images/icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=images/icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle> Bravo!

    I'm a long way from Michigan but would be willing to have my car be the test vehicle. I would have the car shipped there from L.A.


    FYI - it is a convertible if it makes a difference. (Nothing like driving in So. Cal. with the top down and surfer music blasting - especially in the winter).


    The existing exhaust system is going in the trash anyway.

    <BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>

    This is a gigantic breakthrough and highlights both the passion of the members and the HiPo exchange itself...Bravo!

    <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana" size=2 id=quote>


    I agree kompletely! <img src=images/icon_smile_approve.gif border=0 align=middle>

    I'm glad I could help out in a small way - and I did forget to mention that RPM would be a factor - thanks jwc66k!


    My company is headquartered in Plymouth, MI - so definitely count me in for an invite. I'm sure I can swing a trip up to attend.


    My car is a mid-April '65 Dearborn car - defintely had none of the original exhaust in place when I started the resto. Even if this system isn't 100% accurate for my car I like the louder, deep bass exhaust - count me in too. I haven't bought anything yet and this sounds like an awesome opportunity to have a unique system on my car.

    The information below is provided courtesy of Bob Mannel, who has a copy of the 1965 MPC. It appears that the MPC part numbers for the rear hangers differ with those of the Ford "Arvinode" illustration. There are two distinct part numbers listed in the MPC vs the single part number in the illustration.This is great stuff as it adds the precise Ford part numbers to the equation. It also validates the two different hangers found on the cars that had remnants of the node system.


    <BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>The Muffler part numbers: From 10-15-64 to before 3-22-64 (date differs from other sources). The system in the old master was simply referred to as the "node". C5ZZ-5246-G H-pipe. C5ZZ-5230-E muffler/extension assembly right side. C5ZZ-5230-F muffler/extension assembly left side. The inlet, front muffler, pipe to resonator, and resonator were all one unit without a break -- one welded together assembly that was 91.17" long. All pipes were 2". I don't know the diameter of the mufflers, but the resonators were 2¾" in diameter, just like on the Fairlane. I determined this by looking at the rear hanger clamps which wrapped around the resonators. The clamp (C5ZZ-5A231-A) was for 2¾" pipe. I suspect that the mufflers were 2¾" as well, with the sound chamber welded on top of that.


    Hanger part numbers: From 10-15-64 to before 3-22-64. C5ZZ-5A246-L (right side just forward of the axle). C5ZZ-5A246-M (left side just forward of the axle). These used with the "node" system. C5ZZ-5230-C (left side -- aft of axle). C5ZZ-5260-D (right side -- aft of axle). Both the same as before 10-15-64. However, used with clamp C5ZZ-5A231-A (left and right - 2¾"). (So, resonators had to be 2¾".)<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana" size=2 id=quote>


    Joe Tonietto has the engineered drawings now, so we are on our way to an authentic reproduction.


    Edited by - round2K on 02/08/2008 09:23:20

    <BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>I am interested in a system for my june 64 k coupe<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana" size=2 id=quote>


    June 64 is early for the Arvinode system. It probably came with a transverse dual system, which is currently reproduced and available at places like NPD or Mustangs Unlimited.

    After reviewing the various drawings it is clear that the system on the Mustangs and Fairlanes was named the Arvinode. The earlier statment that the system was named Resonode was incorrect and was based on 45 years of recollection by Jim Abbott, who built countless prototypes for Arvin during the 37 years he worked there.


    Waltdron Antique Exhaust is going to produce 40 sets in the first run, which should be done some time in April. Joe is running into a problem finding a small lot manufacturer to do the hangers. If anyone has experience with a metal shop that can press small quantities of stamped steel please get in touch with me or Joe so we can explore the capabilities. The cost of producing dies that match the original parts may end up being cost probhibitive to get an identical match.


    On June 17, 1964 Ben Irwin applied for patent 3,263,772 for another quarter wave system that more closely resembles the one that went into production. Based on Bob Mannel's Fairlane research, the first image is typical of the system found on Fairlanes with a quarter wave tube in the resonator. The second image is more typical of what was found in the Mustang front muffler, though not identical in shape. It should be noted that sizing of the quarter wave tube and the various louvers took quite a bit of trial and error on the dyno to get them dialed in.


    [Blocked Image: http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/2985/20080301patentabstract1bd1.jpg]


    [Blocked Image: http://img182.imageshack.us/img182/8374/20080301patentabstract2pe3.jpg]


    Edited by - round2K on 03/01/2008 07:59:30

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