HEH-T

To expand further. My HEH-BX came out of

a 67 HiPo Coupe which contradicts information

published in various books that all 67 had RUG

4-speeds. Will look at the serial number

in June when taking the car down from

the jackstands in Sweden.

/Bo

My HEH-T toploader is not original to the car, but has the VIN stamp 5F07K675816. Using the registry data, that belonged to a coupe with build date 3-28-65.

It seems the evidence is quite conclusive that the MPC dates are in error. A one page supplement to the hi-po book would go great lengths at helping clarify this issue and also the rear frame rail reinforcement issue.

Nobody knows everything and I don't think anyone claims to know everything, I sure don't. But when there is an obvious and quite significant error, it needs to be corrected asap to protect the credibility of the author.

I would be careful not to jump the gun on this or any similar date code topics. I would guess that you would need more than that handful of cars with various dates to confirm this either way. From whats been referenced as proof it wouldn't be considered "statistically significant" in the real world by a long shot (8 or so cars mentioned out of how many made?). I wouldn't assume one way or another is wrong or correct without a much larger sample based on the number of cars built/ tranny code. Sadly, in my business its sometimes the one who yells the loudest that gets a change made when their position could only represent a small fraction of the majority (thats not as vocal).

Nobody is asking to nail down a new date range but simply make an annotation that while the Ford MPC states a date range, it may be in error.

Considering that K codes were somewhat limited production, a smaller sampling does actually have more significance.

I really don't care what is done with the book, but I hate having to explain incorrect information, especially to newcomer's to the hobby that are relying on accurate information to help them learn about these old cars.

Edited by - caspian65 on 04/05/2007 08:54:37

When I wrote my book "Mustang & Ford Small Block V8", I encountered many surprises that conflicted with stated Ford sources. I considered one exception sufficient to look for a second. If a second was found, I looked for a third as confirmation. If the third case was found, I considered the information confirmed. Now, I am not talking about butchered up engines that looked like they had been worked over by a teenage hotrodder, but engines that had all the evidence of never being molested. There was a case where I was led astray by a single source that was adamant about a HiPo head marked C5AE-E, so I understand the problem. In my case, I trusted the person providing the info and put the information in my book. When I finally had the chance to examine the heads in question, I was appalled to find they were standard 289 heads, and the adamant opinion became a "well I thought they were." So, caution is wise, but where clear contradictions are found, it is best to address them. In the case here, I pointed out that an August 1965 revision to the Ford Master Parts Catalog did not even include the HEH-BX transmission, nor was a 10-1-64 date mentioned. Considering that this revision is a year after the 10-1-64 date and the date is not mentioned, is significant. When combined with the empirical data that to date no 65 Mustang has had the HEH-BX transmission, it merits mentioning.

When I wrote my book, I knew there would be errors, typos, and new information coming to light. I wanted the book to be a living book. So, I established a "List of Changes" which is posted on my website (http://www.fordsmallblock.com). It is updated as needed and available at any time as a free PDF download. You can then make changes in your book in areas of concern to you. True, not every book buyer knows how to access the information. Although I send a sheet of paper with each book sold telling where to find the changes (along with critical changes listed on the sheet), I am sure not everyone gets the word. But, it is the best I can do.

Edited by - bobmannel on 04/07/2007 14:01:15

Bob,

It is great that you are willing to continue to research and improve on your book. That's made it the finest reference available on the subject. Your approach to updates via the web is terrific. Thanks.

Hi Bob.

I don't mean to hijack this thread, but can your book be ordered internationally? I'm in Australia and the online store only seems to sell in the US.

Thanks.

Regards,

René

BTW - my April 65 K has a HEH-T transmission with the the correct VIN on it.

I do send them there, but it is costly -- $36.90 for Air Mail postage (4-10 days), or $22.75 for surface (4-6 weeks). I encourage the former because 4-6 weeks is a long time. You can order through the website, but make a special note in the comments section that it is for Australia. I then email you with the corrected charges. You are not charged on your card until you approve by retuen email. End of commercial....

What is needed is to compile "specific" information. Let's start that here. List the VIN stamped into the transmission, scheduled delivery date listed on the door tag of the car with the same VIN, the transmission code (HEH-T or HEH-BX), and the numbers on the transmission tag (which might be a sequential number). Pictures of door tag, trans tag, and trans VIN stamping highly desireable. Such information will be helpful in presenting the contradictory info about the 10-1-64 code transition date. Max participation will be helpful. We can use this thread to update the data coming in.

Bob,

Hope this will get you started:

5R09K169680, 12/30/64 San Jose

Engine assembly date 12/17/64

HEH-T, 012740

Data plate was bruised by PO during paint before I bought the car, but is intact. Close scrutiny of the engine will show double roller chain that replaced original hipo style when engine was balanced. I did the gearbox at the same time as the motor and took the VIN comparison pic. (You may recall the hipo crankshaft identification pics I sent to you during overhaul.) All 3 chassis VINs are present.

[Blocked Image: http://img114.imageshack.us/img114/159/03transserialnr3.jpg]

[Blocked Image: http://img363.imageshack.us/img363/5930/02vintransenglg4.jpg]

[Blocked Image: http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/1260/01dataplaterr2.jpg]

Edited by - round2K on 04/15/2007 20:07:56

You have set the standard for others to follow! This is excellent documentation. What we need are cars near the end of 65 production and beginning of 1966 production (July 1965 to September 1965).

Recently a HEH-T sold on ebay with the following details:

Serial number 5F09K705784. Date code for this car would be about 26R, or April 26, 1965. Trans tag number was HEH-T 015678. Casting casting number was C30 (March 30, 1965) and extension housing is C22 (March 22, 1965)

Here are the pixs from ebay:

[Blocked Image: http://www.fordsmallblock.com/Pictures/HEH-T-1.jpg]

[Blocked Image: http://www.fordsmallblock.com/Pictures/HEH-T-2.jpg]

[Blocked Image: http://www.fordsmallblock.com/Pictures/HEH-T-3.jpg]

[Blocked Image: http://www.fordsmallblock.com/Pictures/HEH-T-4.jpg]

[Blocked Image: http://www.fordsmallblock.com/Pictures/HEH-T-5.jpg]

Good documentation here to investigate the HEH-T to HEH-BX transition.

Edited by - bobmannel on 09/19/2007 07:09:30

Edited by - bobmannel on 09/19/2007 07:11:06

after reading this interesting thread

i'm surprised that no one has updated it

during the past 3 years!

iowa

How can you read that date off pic?

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>

How can you read that date off pic?

<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana" size=2 id=quote>

<center>[Blocked Image: http://www.fordsmallblock.com/Pictures/HEH-T-4.jpg]</center>

<center>The date (C 30) on the housing (C5AR-D) is a little tricky to read because it's upside down.</center>

<center>[Blocked Image: http://www.fordsmallblock.com/Pictures/HEH-T-5.jpg]</center>

<center>The date (C 22) on the tail extension (C4ZR-A) is clearly visible...</center>

WOW! Great discussion and sharing of data. I'll check my Mar 01 65 and send in the trans data mid-August. Currently trekking in SE Asia, would like to meet up with some HiPo fellas if there are any in Malaysia.

I think I have an HEH-T. My VIN is stamped longitudinally on the bottom spine of the case. Looking forward to sending in pictures for the database.

I know this is an old thread but based on it, I finally got under my car to check out the transmission I have. I have a gt350 and in the '90s I pulled the T-10 and replaced it with a toploader to go racing. The toploader I have is an HEH-T with 014050 but I have been unable to find a VIN stamped on it. With the tranny still in the car, it is tough to see everywhere, but have checked all of the bottom surfaces without finding anything. Does anyone have any insight into the most probable place to look? I will try again, but would like to focus on the places that are most probable.

Thanks,

Jay

If you pulled out a T-10 and put in an HEH-T it is unlikely it will be stamped with a VIN of any kind unless you are certain you acquired the transmission that was once in a K code. The trans and engine were stamped at the same time and would have been mated to a K car as a VIN matching assembly.

Edited by - round2K on 11/20/2010 20:49:24

Not sure of the history on the Toploader as I picked it up at a swap meet. I thought from this thread that the HEH-T was unique to the K codes, but it sounds like that may not be correct. My main reason for wanting to know was I am returning to my car to street and will eventually be pulling the toploader and putting the aluminum T-10 back in. When I do this I would like the toploader to go back to its original car if it came from a K code.

Jay