• So, I have a 1966 San Jose Kar, and have been tearing it down, hoping in the odd chance that I would find the Build Sheet. I pulled the rear seat, instrument cluster, front seats, carpet, headliner, door panels...nothing. After pulling the dash pad, there it was, laying on the silver blue metal, driver side staring at me. Affixed securely with a piece of yellowish black masking tape, and rolled up nice and neatly.


    As I carefully removed the tape, two thin and crumbling pieces of perforated printer paper came free. The first piece, a yellowish white piece about 8 inches long, 4 inches tall, contains everything I was hoping to find: Serial Number, Scheduled Build Date, Options... you name it. ...this is where I am totally perplexed!


    The second one, that is the same size, but pinkish gray in color, contains most of the same information. Some info is marked out and initialed, and some items have changed.


    The serial number is the same (6R07K117304) The Type Order is changed from 5 to 1. Region District is 75 (I can't find that listed anywhere, it stops at 74). Axle went from 4 1 to 4 H. Under Trans/IGN Exhaust/GT GROUP/REFLECTOR on the yellow one it is BLANK, on the Pink one it says 6. ENG. TRANS. is listed as K 6 on both.


    The most interesting part of the two sheets is the SCHED DATE box. On the Yellow/White one it says 07K, on the Pinkish one it says 30K.


    Is it possible the car stopped in production and held for almost a month? Or maybe the order was changed during production? I can't find any information on this pink build sheet, or why the information would differ. If anyone has any knowledge, or hell even speculation, I would greatly appreciate your input.

  • The 75 DSO is for Phoenix. This is listed in both the Ford MPC and Tonys book.


    There was a time in Hipo production where Ford was short on Hipo 289 engines. Actually they were short on standard 289 engines as well. I have never heard of when it was but only that it did happen. My understanding is that Kars were built and waiting for engines. Maybe yours is one of those and that may explain the production date change?


    -Fred-

    65 Koupe early San Jose Phoenician Yellow 4 speed
    66 GT Koupe Dearborn Blue 4 speed
    66 KGT San Jose fastback pony interior Silver Frost 4 speed
    64 Falcon sedan delivery 289 4 speed
    65 Ranchero 289 4 speed
    66 Corvette roadster 427/425 4 speed

  • Thanks for the quick reply Fred, I had heard that they delayed during manufacturing, but that never crossed my mind.


    I guess that would explain why there are 2 build sheets then. I'm trying to recreate them so I can read all of the little words in the boxes. Between the 2 of them I think I can make out just about everything. Does anyone know if they can be reprinted? I have read in a few places that Ford can and will do it for free but it takes quite a few months to get the sheet back. Plus being a pre-67 Kar, it looks like I would have to send them the sheets I have in order for them to create a new one.


    The only thing I have had recreated for the Kar so far is the door plate, and Marti was a big help with that. I have the original sales order for it, and Marti was kind enough to take the time explain what each item on the sheet was, and what they all meant on the door plate. Great bunch of folks.

  • Can you post some pics of the build sheet? I'd be interested to se what it looks like. I also think some other people are trying to collect some data on those and compare them....So has anyone else found build sheets in the San Jose cars?

  • Congratulations Mark! San Jose build sheets are extremely rare. I have done, and continue to do build sheet research. You can find my efforts on my blog http://mustangcodex.blogspot.com

    Check the archives and it’ll tell you what many of the codes are.

    An Order Type 5 is a Fleet order, and a 1 is a Retail sale. The car was evidently cancelled by its original Fleet customer. Perhaps they didn’t want to wait until the HiPo engines were available again.

    A 6 code under Trans/IGN Exhaust/GT GROUP/REFLECTOR stands for the GT Equipment Group. I would assume from this that the car was upgraded to a GT.

    The axle code is one of the most difficult codes for me to break. I’m still trying to figure out why it’s a two-digit code. The second digit appears to identify the rear gear set. This means that the 1 in the 4 1 stands for 3:00 gears which is something I see a lot on A-code cars. Very unusual to see this in a K-code. The other K-codes I have utilize codes 5 and E (the 3:50 gears in the standard and limited slip respectively). The 4 H is even more unusual! I have no record of an H code being used for a 66 Mustang axle. I would have to expand my database to see if this axle might have come from another Ford vehicle.

    I would sure appreciate pictures of your build sheets to add to my database! You can email them to petebush@comcast.net

    I have never seen a build sheet reassignment like the two you describe.

    I have a picture of my build sheet on my website. I laminated it to preserve it. You may be able to do the same to yours. I would never let mine out of my possession. If you are thinking about having a repro made, I would send pictures or photocopies to the vendor.

    Most build sheets are the parchment color, and I’m sure some of the color is a result of age. The pinkish gray one, to my knowledge, is not reproduced. Even the parchment color repro is a little different than my original.

    In the bottom left-hand corner there should be a form number and printing date. I’d be interested to see what it says on your pink copy. Is there something on the form itself that identifies its use other than the color?


    Thanks!

    Pete


    Edited by - Pete Bush on 02/05/2011 12:37:10

  • I'll try and get the build sheets scanned and posted as soon as possible. The Pink one, on the lower left corner says:

    MAT CONT

    JUL 1 65 AAD 8502-S


    It looks like there may have been a corbon sheet on top as there are smudges, light grey markthroughs, handwritten initials, and cirles around various boxes.


    I am reproducing it electronically and can e-mail that to you if you would like.

    I checked out your blog and, wow, you have a lot of information on there, I hope that my sheets can add to your data collection.


    On another note, the engine in the Kar right now is a 5.0HO from an 83 Mustang. I found a correctly dated HiPo block in Arlington, TX a few months back. I was told in was pulled from a 66 way back in the day and the guy that pulled it said he was told by the original owner, that the block was blown. He also said the block was original, never reworked, with under 10K miles on it. The serial is 6R09K117288, dated 11L5. It actually had a blown head gasket, and sure enough, the bore, using a digital caliper is 3.9982. Very light surface rust on the walls, but other than that, it looks perfect. I don't know if anyone is looking for this engine, but I would gladly trade it if ANYONE could find mine (6R07K117304).


    I'm gonna post some other stuff about the gauges on the car (none of the partnumbers match the ones in the MPC or any catalog I have. I have a 45 year old Frankenstien, that is slowly coming back to factory condition, very slowly.

  • Your gauge numbers will generally never match the MPC because the numbers on the gauges are purely engineering numbers. On top of that the engineering number that you are seeing may be for only the face of the gauge and not the actual part. As an example, 65 and 66 amp gauges have the same C5ZF 10671 number on the face of the gauge but they are totally different in function. That number is actually the engineering number for the face of the gauge only.


    -Fred-

    65 Koupe early San Jose Phoenician Yellow 4 speed
    66 GT Koupe Dearborn Blue 4 speed
    66 KGT San Jose fastback pony interior Silver Frost 4 speed
    64 Falcon sedan delivery 289 4 speed
    65 Ranchero 289 4 speed
    66 Corvette roadster 427/425 4 speed

  • Mark,


    Yes, I would certainly appreciate a copy of the build sheets once you get them scanned!


    The parchment-colored forms are identified as:


    MAT CONT

    JUL 65 AAD 8502-P


    So it looks as though they differ by the last letter P & S. And there's no indication of it being a carbon copy.

  • Interesting find - would love to see a scan.


    <BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>

    The most interesting part of the two sheets is the SCHED DATE box. On the Yellow/White one it says 07K, on the Pinkish one it says 30K.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana" size=2 id=quote>


    Remember this (scheduled build date - projected build date) is only a guess on the part of a worker in the office.


    <BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Is it possible the car stopped in production and held for almost a month? Or maybe the order was changed during production?

    <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana" size=2 id=quote>


    More likely the original "guess" of build date got changed for some unknown reason.


    Don't believe cars were built then just sat around waiting for engine - not that amount of free space available from my understanding. Easier just to wait to start them if there was a shortage at San Jose


    Keep an eye out for a smaller piece of paper (approx 2 x 4") with your cars VIN and a small amount of additional info

  • <BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Is it possible the car stopped in production and held for almost a month? Or maybe the order was changed during production?

    <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana" size=2 id=quote>


    <BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>


    More likely the original "guess" of build date got changed for some unknown reason.


    Don't believe cars were built then just sat around waiting for engine - not that amount of free space available from my understanding. Easier just to wait to start them if there was a shortage at San Jose


    <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana" size=2 id=quote>


    I agree with Jeff. I doubt a car would be partially built and then yanked off a well-running assembly line because some of the HiPo parts were not "in stock"...

  • Jeff,


    I guess it would depend on what one's definition of "production" was. If you define it as the physical building of the car (assembly of parts and pieces), I agree, the assembly line wouldn't have likely started and stopped and then started again almost a month later on a car moving down the assembly line.


    However, the build sheet can also be viewed as a production release order by the main office - which assigned the serial number VIN and scheduled the build date. The fact that there was a first build sheet generated would seem to indicate to me that this Kar was released for production on 07K. It's likely, given the explanation thus far, that this production order was modified shortly after its release.


    The timing of this change is difficult to reason out. If it came before "any" work was started on the vehicle, it would simply have been easier and less confusing to line workers for San Jose to destroy the original build sheet before it went down to the production floor. The fact that the two co-exist kinda alludes to a situation where some of the parts and pieces were being gathered in anticipation of their use on the line. I'm sure the parts as a whole all had different lead times, yet they had to be sitting there in sequence when the line workers needed them. IMHO, It almost sounds to me like some of the parts with the longest lead times were being produced when the change order came down. the parts were then put aside (not the whole car) until the new schedule date arrived.


    What is this smaller piece of paper you allude to?


    Edited by - Pete Bush on 02/07/2011 06:09:16

  • There are a lot of differences in codes between the two sheets: example on the second line. Are the boxes with the different codes the same or different?

    Jim

  • The information (name of the boxes) are the same, and yes the Codes are different. This was part of the initial question I had. Since there is a 3 week difference in the sheets, I am wondering if the order was changed during it's production run. Maybe the person who ordered it got paid that week and decided they could spend more money on more options?


    I just thought it kind of strange that the sheets were that much different. From what I've learned so far, it looks like the paint was changed, the type code was changed, power steering was added, the springs and shocks were changed, the rearend was upgraded, the GT package was added, different tires were added, a decor group was added, air conditioner was deleted, radio was changed, something happened with the seat belts, the front windshield was tinted, the wheels were changed, the speed o gear was changed, gas was changed, stripes were added, gas cap was changed and something I can't make out (bottom row, third from the right) and in the remarks is BL.


    Would someone really make all those changes to a car after initially ordering it? You could have bought a second car for the price of all the upgrades they got!!


    From what I know about the car, since I've been tearing it apart, is it is a 66 Coupe. There is a K in the 5th digit of the VIN, The VIN is stamped on 3 aprons under the hood, both left side aprons, rear right apron. The radiator support has punched holes for the fog light, underdash and engine compartment harnesses for fog lights, D shaped hole for the fog light switch lowe left dash underneath. There is wear on the steering column and a hole were the rally pac collar and wiring cover would have gone. The front suspension has been replaced with a right side 67 setup (possible accident, or what they had in the front yard at the time). There are bondo holes on the fenders where the gt badges should be, and three holes aroud the 289 upper fender area. The interior was originaaly blue and white pony, but was replaced with aqua from a 65 at some point (probably to match exterior).


    There are holes in the floor pan hump where the console should have been, but was filled in with silicone. The door lights were replaced with plywood, bondo, and a LOT of paint. It had disk brakes at one time, the master cylinder, splashguards and discs were in a box in the trunk when I got it. The gas cap was replaced with a 65 cap. The leaf springs are 5 leaf, looks factory, can't tell. it had probably the original Koni shocks on it, I just pulled them out, Right Rear was a monroe.


    I started stripping down the hood and tail light panel, the colors are in this order, steel - dark gray primer - Wimbledon WHite - Red Oxide - Dark Gray Primer - Wimbledon White - light gray primer - White? (Very bright white color) - red oxide - light gray primer - turqouise. Quite a few repaints, toward the center of the hood, stone guard, front valance, roof, trunklid, tail panel, and rear valance is a blue srtipe (2) in between the first coat of wimbledon white and red oxide. The blue matched the stripe on the front fender and door.


    If this helps any one decipher the codes on the build sheets, I'll be glad to post pictures of any part of the car you need. It is taken apart as of now, so just about everything is accessible.

  • Talk about an extreme makeover!

    The 65B code would identify a pony interior coupe, but there’s no 5 in the interior décor box on the original this was fixed on the pink copy as there is a 5 there.

    I.B. Paint code 1 is interior paint white

    Original was solid Wimbledon White exterior but was changed to a black bottom with a white top (police car colors?).

    Trim 62 is blue & white.

    Type order 5 is fleet and this was changed to a retail sale code 1.

    District region is Phoenix .

    Car originally had standard brakes and was upgraded to code 3 front disc.

    Alternator was the 42 AMP code 8.

    Springs have some new/strange codes in them.

    Shocks code F are standard special handling issue, that were upgraded to code K (not sure if this designates Koni, it’s another new code for me).

    A code 9 radiator is typically used for air conditioning cars. This was changed to a non-air conditioning code K (another new code).

    A 4 1 axle is typically seen on A-codes and identifies the 3:00 gears. 4 H is another new code.

    The GT group is identified by a code 6.

    K engine, and code 6 is C-4.

    Tires type 1 are the baseline issue and code 5 is the redlines.

    An 8 console is the short air-conditioning console. Code 7 is the long console.

    Code 7 identifies the wood steering wheel.

    Code 5 = air conditioning which was deleted from the pink build sheet.

    The AM radio code 2 was upgraded to an AM/8-track code B.

    Deluxe seat belts front & rear is code 1.

    The tinted glass all around code D was changed to a tinted windshield only code M.

    The visibility group option is code 6.

    Optional battery 24F is code 1.

    Wheel covers with KO hubs is code 5. Steel style wheels is code 3.

    Rally pac is code 7.

    I believe gas is the amount installed.

    Speed-O-Gear code F is another new code. A 3:00 rear with C-4 should have been a code K.

    Paint stripe code 4 is another new code – I’m thinking a rally stripe of a particular as yet unidentified color.

    Speedo calibration code 2 is typically found on export cars. The same with code 5 undercoat., and code 5 T-up paint.

    I believe that the BL in the remarks box mean the bottom line remarks of Export Suspension – Special Handling Pkg.

    Pete


    Edited by - Pete Bush on 02/07/2011 20:35:57

  • thanks for all the trouble to scan them!

    really appreciate it!


    BTW, i just use Adobe Acrobat program

    and scan color documents or photos to PDF files.

    works great,

    but, of course, the Adobe program

    (not Adobe Reader, which is free)

    is pretty $$$$$$$$


    thanks again

    i remember removing the dash pad from my K kar

    and wasn't to lucky to find such a sheet


    Iowa

  • Wow Pete! You shed a lot of light on the Kar!! Now it begs the question, what the hell is this Kar? I did pull a factory (period correct) A/C from the car, but the wiring and drains were bastardized (16Gauge wire on the A/C power...). So, I'm pretty sure the factory didn't do that.


    It sounds like it was originally ordered for A/C for then decided against? Then they wanted it again? I have found some other strange items on the car, but can;t find them in the body manuals. There is grommeted hole in the left side package tray next to the headliner, two holes in the right shock tower, just above the wiring retainer hole. Two holes forward of the gas tank on the trunk floor (punched 3/8" in diameter). 4 holes in the shock tower where the upper control goes, and 2 holes (1/2" diameter) punched above the heater blower motor in the firewall. Does anyone know what these holes would be for? I'm not positive, but the shock tower holes could be from a shelby UCA relocation? They are .5313" using a digital caliper. I doubt the Kar was ever at shelby, and someone probably did the holes themselves, but when I pulled the UCA's they were mounted in the top holes, it doesn't look like anything was ever in the bottom ones (no scuffs or crimps from the nuts).


    I thought I was getting a good deal when I bought the Kar in September. Don't get me wrong, I love restoring it, but how do you put something back to how it came from the factory, when it came from the factory with things you don't understand. Maybe it would have been better if I hadn't found the sheets, and just did the restoration based on the evidence the car is presenting.

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