K rebody??

    Quote

    .............Quite a few people went and looked at that car three decades ago and it was pretty well known there was nothing left to salvage but the VIN plate and a hood. Today it is a high dollar never been damaged “original”.


    Think what you want but to me that car is a replica at best and somebody paid over $300,000 for a car that ended its existence around 30 years ago. And there are people that don’t believe in reincarnation.


    great story, now lets have the serial number.


    Z. Ray

    Edited once, last by rr64_old (August 11, 2007 at 5:30 AM).

    Quote from Belmont

    K's are not the only rebody candidates... check this out :


    http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200139837098&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=010</p><p>
    </p><p>


    I still don't understand how this can be legal. Over here, there is no way anything like this could happen.


    it's NOT LEGAL over here either!!!!


    ebay prohibits (bans) the listings of : "offering a title without a vehicle" and "Vehicle Identification (VIN) Plates" both of which are in this listing .


    I hate these @***$%%$ crooks.


    http://pages.ebay.com/help/contact_u…em=200139837098


    select subtopic : ebay motors or vehile related

    select: Prohibited (banned) items


    ebay seems to rely on people reporting these listings instead of having software or personel to stop them from ever being listed.


    I notified them of the listing of banned items. We'll see if it is removed.


    Z. Ray

    The Shelby American Automobile Club (SAAC) knows "the car". It is not appropriate for me, since I don’t own it, to post the chassis number.


    I wasn't trying to police the hobby then or now. In the 1970s and 1980s I bought, sold, and traded my way up from a 1966 Mustang two door hard top to a 1964 Cobra. Several cars were Shelby Mustangs. Whenever I came across a Shelby Mustang with something very undesirable about it, I wrote down all the details. I carried the notes with me constantly up into the mid 1990s. The title of my notes was “Cars To Avoid”. It was not uncommon for somebody to call me and ask about car such and such, especially if they knew that I had checked it out. At that point I would tell them what I wrote the day I looked the car over.


    I did forward these notes to SAAC. They have never published any of them.


    I can not speak for SAAC but the pattern seems to be

    • publishes what the legal owner of the chassis number reports

    • files away anything anybody but the owner reports.


    Owner claims are given some level of credibility and every body else just has hearsay. SAAC has more information on many cars than they publish and it can be obtained by the owner of the car. They have to ask. I don’t believe they will tell you what they have if you do not own the car. At worst they might say the car has some questions about it.


    The best thing anybody can do is research cars before they commit to buying them. Somebody always knows. Case in point. Just a couple of years ago, someone was trying to sell me a GT350 that was a “thoroughbred” every nut and bolt correct car. It won national awards at the highest levels. I thought their eagerness and price somewhat questionable. With questioning it came out a very complete but very rusty Shelby car morphed into a never been damaged one. The “restorers” even found a Mustang assembled in San Jose near the same date as the Shelby. They spent a fortune. The Mustang was rebuilt with the Shelby’s identity and was accepted as original by a lot of people. I did not take the car. In the 1970s when I was hunting 1965-66 GT350s maybe 20% were so beat I would not even consider them as salvageable without serious amounts of body and component replacement. I bet most of those are “never been damaged originals” now.


    My only recommendation is to do lots of home work before buying any old car.


    On the other hand. If you want to know anything about any of the cars I personally owned, I will gladly tell you about what they were like during my stewardship. What happened to them after they left my garage, who knows. Of all the cars, trucks, and one motorcycle I have ever owned exactly one subsequent owner of any of them has ever inquired. The one that did (a 1967 GT500) got rewarded last year with some history he did not know and an envelope of pictures I took of the car in the 1970s.

    Edited once, last by rr64_old (August 14, 2007 at 3:21 PM).

    Quote from brett1970

    Since i seem to iritate the grouchy old men on this board so much, i guess i'll rub it in a little.


    LOL:D:D:D He's referring to you guys! :evil:


    Brett, although I don't like the idea of creating a K car out of thin air (basically agree with Z.Ray), I think you have all the "fixins" for a nice Shelby clone. That way at least it would obviously be a non-original car but still have all the high-perf goodies to enjoy. Thanks for consulting the grouchy old men.:)


    BTW - nice GT350, Z-Ray!

    Lyle

    Edited once, last by b9folk_old (August 14, 2007 at 3:16 PM).

    I forgot to mention that the Shelby Clone idea would still require a legal VIN, so it doesn't solve this discussion about rebodied cars.


    Lyle


    {Z. Ray - your situation is similar to other issues (bridge infrastructure, etc.) The powers that be won't spend money until something bites them in the pants. The story here in MN is that the Feds want to rapidly rebuild the bridge before there is time to complete a redesign (because of various political reasons) and also not figure out ahead of time how future transit options can be accomodated. I won't hijack things by going into detail.}


    it's NOT LEGAL over here either!!!!


    ebay prohibits (bans) the listings of : "offering a title without a vehicle" and "Vehicle Identification (VIN) Plates" both of which are in this listing .


    I hate these @***$%%$ crooks.


    http://pages.ebay.com/help/contact_u…em=200139837098


    select subtopic : ebay motors or vehile related

    select: Prohibited (banned) items


    ebay seems to rely on people reporting these listings instead of having software or personel to stop them from ever being listed.


    I notified them of the listing of banned items. We'll see if it is removed.


    Z. Ray


    the auction was never pulled. Winning bid $1913.00


    figures...


    Z. Ray

    You raise an interesting point. You say " they don't care, they just want that car." But if it is represented as an original car to the prospective buyer, is that what you base your opinion on, that " they just don't care, or were they fully informed that a car was moved under the vin sheetmetal to make the paper work and car look one and the same? I am changing my opinion slowly here, because while the law, statutory, is not as strict as the moral law of disclosure here, there are those that think they are the same, and, as you pointed out with the Trooper's statement, the law of the State might not care. Is it something to get away with, is there any likelihood that somewhere down the road real disclosure may disappear, and the car become "a genuine unmolested body " that came with the paperwork? Where is the enforcement? Its not there.


    my .02 worth.

    All the original ford sheet metal have date codes stamped into them.If HPM.com can compile what the appox. date is for that particular vin. From that particular plant is a great start.My good friend ,and me just finished restoring my 1965 hi po fastback. It is a original rust free , accident free car from Arizona. I have owned this car for 5 years, and it is in the fourth addition.Anyway when a car is a good original car, all of these date codes jump right out at you. Exact locations of these stamping, is another good diagram to compile.It is very important to keep track of the history of these cars, like the Shelby Club dose. All 65 -66 Shelby's had to come from the San Jose plant.All 65-66 fastbacks buit in Dearborn, or Metuchin, are not the same. If you are going to pay big bucks for a K code, or Shelby do your homework, or pay someone to help you.This is what makes these cars special. Now i here someone is able to stamp vin numbers stars and all. Lets try to show where these date codes are , and record dates on known orig. cars and we can protect these special cars.

    I forgot to mention the factory spot welds, learing where to look . And what they should like , is also very important. I am not against Dynacorn making bodies, or someone saving a junker , just keep it real so no one gets burned. thank you

    Just my opinion, but replacing a vin on a car with another is no different than putting a good (salvage) serial number on a stolen vehicle.. The end result would be the same in my opinion, you are making the a vehicle into something it is not. If this is not illegal it certainly should be. Why would someone go to the trouble of cutting and replacing vin numbers unless he or she wanted to make his car appear to be something it is not. You know you can buy a "genuine" Rolex on the streets for $50, its not genuine but it says Rolex, there are people in jail for importing "knock off" items from China. I ask what is the differance??? This practice is all around bad news build a "k" clone, put the badges on it and all of the hi-po parts, leave the serial number alone.. only a small percent of the population knows what a "k" code mustang is anyway.


    Signed: an owner of a genuine "K", not a "C" with a replacement Vin.....

    Post the VIN, I posted mine. My car was a once over raced totally trashed daily driver and not a concourse restoration. I had by my self, over the years, replaced the sheet metal replaced except the drivers door, unibody floor shell with engine bay, roof, hood, and trunk lid. Was it already a re-body? If mine is ever re-re-bodied, it is no longer fraud. However it is no longer a factory Kcode. Never-Never-Never. It will forever be a plain jane rebodied worthless mustang. and everybody knows it now. I still have a K engine, K motor mounts and exhaust manifolds, 64 rare K distibutor, 9 inch rear end, a Carter X fuel pump. Just those parts alone are worth more than most plain jane mustangs. Mine will be "KIT CAR - 5R07K102379" or a framed title with a VIN hanging on the wall.


    POST THE VIN AND LIST IT AS DESTROYED !!!!!!!!!!! Scott

    no one is more severe

    on the issue of VIN or data plates then the FAA

    when restoration of an aircraft is envolved.

    yet, an antique airplane can be completely restored

    using airworthy parts ‘equal’ to the original

    and using the original data plate!!

    Glacier Girl is a Lockheed P-38F-1-LO Lightning

    World War II fighter plane, 41-7630, c/n 222-5757.

    it was the one buried under the ice on Greenland for 50 years!!

    it was restored to airworthy condition

    and is about 5% original, probably less,

    AND is perfectly legal!!

    No one disputes this!!


    [Blocked Image: http://www.surfacezero.com/g503/data/500/medium/OSHKOSH_2007_344_glacier_girl.jpg]

    Edited once, last by iowa_old (May 15, 2011 at 8:04 AM).

    Putting a destroyed car's VIN on anther car happens. I know of a GT350H that had a completly demolished front end but the owner kept a strip of fender apron with both left side VIN's intact for authenticity. It had a new front clip welded on and I believe they somhow kept the "strip". As long as the history is revealed when the car is sold I don't see a problem. It's the next sale that bothers me.

    I remember the restorers of Glacier Girl looking for a front tire.

    Great restoration story http://www.p38assn.org/glacier-girl.htm

    Jim

    How many cars were re-bodied before they became collector cars? When I was younger, I took a car and replaced the back half of the car with another car. This was done in autobody school. We thought nothing of it. So,at what price range or desirability level does it become such a horrible thing? How many of you may have a re-body and you don't even know it?


    I would not do this to a car personally, but I think Brett was very open and up-front in what he planned to do. If he was really out to screw someone, then he would not have said anything to anyone.


    I had some issues with my original engine block that has the vin stamped on it and several people told me to just get another block and stamp the vin in it, but I could not do that. I ended up putting another $1,000 into the block to fix it, but some people would think nothing of re-stamping it.


    I think it's a personal thing and people get upset, because they think it corrupts the market value of the collector cars. I'm somewhat a purist with my own car, but not so much with others cars.


    Thanks for being open about your car Brett and good luck with the project.

    Quote from CharlesTurner

    FYI... the original post in this thread was started 4 years ago...


    Ha, That's funny. Well how did the car turn out I wonder:)

    "Those that disregard history are doomed to repeat it." (Or something like that.)

    (Do posts have an expiration date?)

    Edited once, last by jwc66k (May 15, 2011 at 6:16 PM).

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