Is it a T5?

41GPAWS_old · December 2, 2006 at 4:07 PM

I just bought a 66 k code convertible that was converted into a shelby clone mostly because it had an original 66 shelby optional steering wheel that wanted for my shelby. I got the car home yesterday and it appears that it was an original factory GT. My biggest question is the fact that it has the extra plate that I have on my T5 where the export brace bolts on to the cowl, could it be a t5? My original T5 has the original door tag as well as all documentation but this car comes with no paper work. The GT grill was replaced with a shelby type grill(no horse and corral) but I still have the for light switch in the car which prompt me to look for the holes in the radiator support which have been stamped(has a lip on the inside of the radiator support)and the plate inside the frmae rails as well as brackets under the rear seats for the dual exhaust. I will be selling the car since I already have 3 k convertibles but the big question is, is this a T5 factory GT convertible?

BoS_old · December 2, 2006 at 6:08 PM

T5 denomination was only used for cars

sold in Germany as the name Mustang was

already patented there. However, probably

every export car had the export brace re-enforcement.

Does your car have evenly spaced bolts

at the cowl? If so, it's probably an export car.

/Bo

65shelby_old · December 4, 2006 at 12:34 PM

My take on export braces was the early Shelby's used the even hole spacing and added the reinforcement plate at the cowl attachment point. The Export cars used the staggered hole spacing which bolts directly to the cowl with no modifications. It also explains the abundance of factory FORD export braces around with the staggered holes. Whether a reinforcement plate was used or not I'm unsure.

If the car was a Shelby replica, he probably added both for authenticity. I did the same to my '65 R-model replica and have an original Shelby equal hole spaced brace. I made my own reinforcement plate but they're also available from COBranda as well with the even spacing. I'm not sure of availability in the staggered hole stock configuration.

Anyways, my $.02........

Mark

BoS_old · December 4, 2006 at 4:55 PM

Sorry Mark, but the 65-66 Export Mustangs

had evenly spaced holes in the brace and the re-enforcement

bracket as well as the washers on the front

shock mounts. Shelby ordered the same for his

65-66 Mustang GT350 from San Jose'.

I have personally owned Export Mustangs (in Sweden)

as well as 65 Shelby (in Texas) and 66 Shelby in Sweden as well.

Also have an original Export brce from a Swedish car

in my garage and it's exactly the same as on my 65 Shelby.

/Bo

41GPAWS_old · December 4, 2006 at 5:37 PM

I agree with Bo. My factory GT convertible T5 does have the even spaced export brace just like my 66 Shelby. I thought the previous owner added the washers but I guess I will make sure they go back. It look horible with the washers. I am fortunate to have all documentation as far as bill of sale, window sticker and shipping documents with my t5 so there is no doubt that it is what the prevous owner told me. After placing this post I went through my T5 registry and discovered that all of the T5's were built at the T or F plant. That is about 100 cars. I think it is safe to say that if any were from San Jose it would be very small. If it were a T5 I would keep it but now I will be selling it as soon as I get it repainted.

65shelby_old · December 5, 2006 at 12:39 PM

Not a challenge as I'm sure your correct and makes perfect sense. What about the staggered space FORD export braces? Did they become a performance over the counter item for easier bolt-in?? It seems as though the Ford p/n was a C5 or C6ZZ but not positive.

I've seen several T-5's but never keyed in on the reinforcement plate as I've seen on the Shelby's. There are a couple in my local club so I'll have a closer look.

I always thought it was one of Shelby's tricks.......

Mark

s2ms · December 5, 2006 at 10:51 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>

I always thought it was one of Shelby's tricks.......

I used to think that too until learning recently the brace, reinforcement plate, and washer reinforced shock towers were all part of the export package. Shelby's only trick was realizing this setup could be applied to cars destined for Shelby American at the San Jose plant.

I believe the staggered space export braces first came into production with the 67 Shelbys.

round2K_old · December 6, 2006 at 12:20 AM

Does anyone have a picture to help this discussion? (Original 65-66 Shelby installation.) I am not familiar with the washer reinforced shock towers. I have seen the cowl reinforcing plate on a number of original Shelby's and was told it was part of the T5 export brace installation from Ford. Shelby was able to order the cars with anything Ford was producing at the time, wasn't he?

s2ms · December 6, 2006 at 9:36 PM

Here's an original set of 65-66 GT350 reinforced shock towers:

[Blocked Image: http://www.1965gt350mustang.com/temp/towers.jpg]

J_Speegle_old · December 7, 2006 at 12:37 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>I used to think that too until learning recently the brace, reinforcement plate, and washer reinforced shock towers were all part of the export package. <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

The reinforced (washers) front upper shock mounts were something done at Shelby. Seen a fair amount of export cars and none of them had the reinforced shock mounts.

As for the export braces - even spaced for 65-66 staggered spacing (saved time and money) started in 67 though Ford continued to use th earlier part number.

s2ms · December 7, 2006 at 1:08 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>

The reinforced (washers) front upper shock mounts were something done at Shelby. Seen a fair amount of export cars and none of them had the reinforced shock mounts.

I've also seen a number of 66 GT350's, including mine, that were in the later part of the production run that originally did not have the reinforced washers either. That's why I picked up a couple of sets years ago. I suspect there was a supply shortage and they certainly didn't want to hold up production for a few washers, just my opinion here.

IMO it makes more sense for a (presumed) shortage like this to have more of an effect if it was at San Jose rather that if it was a Shelby specific modification. Plus Bo mentioned he has owned Export Mustangs with the reinforced towers.

Guess more digging is needed on this one.

BoS_old · December 7, 2006 at 10:21 PM

Hi again,

Looked through some Swedish car magazines

tonight, including the Classic Mustang

Club of Sweden's magazine called Mustang Forum.

One article there is about a 65 Mustang Rally

Pack, yes they called them that as they were

equipped with Rally Packs, 4-V, A-code engines

and Export Braces. This car has very few miles

and has spent most of it's life in a car museum.

One picture shows the Export Brace and the welded

washer on the shock tower braces. Restorers of

65 Mustangs in Sweden use this car as a reference

as it has never been molested.

By the way, I wrote two articles in the same magazine,

one about the Shelby Texas Nationals and another

about my car, SFM5S275.

/Bo

DJames_old · December 8, 2006 at 12:41 AM

The 65/66 T5s had the evenly spaced bolt holes on the export brace with all of the reinforcement that is typically associated with Shelbys.They also, like the 65/66 Shelbys, did not have the brackets welded to the shock towers for the front end of the cowl braces, since they weren't going to get the cowl braces. That's a much better indicator than the holes in the cowl, since a lot of people don't know that they're supposed to be like that and, consequently, sleep through it and don't remove them. The car should also have the other two holes in the cowl for the regular cowl braces.You can't see them because the export brace covers them but you can reach under there and feel them. You guys with 65 Shelbys should also have those other two holes.

J_Speegle_old · December 8, 2006 at 2:57 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>IMO it makes more sense for a (presumed) shortage like this to have more of an effect if it was at San Jose rather that if it was a Shelby specific modification. Plus Bo mentioned he has owned Export Mustangs with the reinforced towers.

Guess more digging is needed on this one.

We would expect that if they were installed at San Jose they would have been mentioned in the Add-Delete sheets that Ford used to build the cars. From what I recall they are not listed there.

As for export cars there may have been running changes during the years or have to do with the country the car was being shipped to, as the original ones I've seen and friends have owned did not have them as mentioned earlier.

Don't remember seeing them ( been a fair number of years though) any on Mustangs in Germany and Switzerland in the 70's. Most recent one I ran across was a NJ car (kind of odd) built for Japan. Most Pacific Rim exports I've seen were built at SJ but it may have more to do from where/how it was ordered

Edited by - J_Speegle on 12/08/2006 02:58:55

41GPAWS_old · December 11, 2006 at 12:03 AM

Hi guys,

I looked at both my 66 shelby this weekend as well as my T5 and they both have the same export brace and washers on the shock towers.

s2ms · December 11, 2006 at 10:36 PM

I've had an email conversation with Howard Pardee, 65-66 GT350 SAAC Registrar, regarding this issue. He has an original version of this well known photo and he said:

"from what I can see it's pretty clear that the washers are there. The export brace and bee hives (that's what they called them) were installed at San Jose."

That's significant since the cars in the pic are as delivered from San Jose before they were modified at Shelby American, the washer reinforced shock towers seem to have been part of the Export modifications.

Edited by - Mad4HiPos on 12/11/2006 23:55:44

J_Speegle_old · December 12, 2006 at 1:50 AM

Went back and searched the add-delete sheets and there is indeed (my oversight) a listing (ITEMS TO BE INSTALLED) showing 2- 3829698 Brkt Assy - Frnt Shock Abs. Upper listed

Interesting that the sheets refer to a number of items we know by part numbers using hardware numbers - like the "export" brace. Don't know why

CharlesTurner · December 12, 2006 at 8:38 AM

Interesting topic. I always assumed that the shock tower washers were added during the Shelby conversion.

C6ZZKGT · December 14, 2006 at 11:34 AM Official Post

I had a 66 T5 Hipo GT Convertible and it too had the evenly spaced export brace, cowl reinforcement and shock tower washers. I was involved with another 66 T5 C code fastback that had the evenly spaced export brace, cowl reinforcement and shock tower washers as well. The export cars used different bolts and washers than standard cars for the export brace to firewall. Shelbys used the same ones as well. Not all export cars received these items but my understanding is that the ones destined for Europe usually did have the entire package of pieces as Ford felt that the road conditions there were rougher. The idea was to give the cars added rigidity. Cars destined for Canada usually did not have these.

-Fred-

J_Speegle_old · December 14, 2006 at 10:36 PM

Just to add some more info (though not specific to 64-66)

Have pictures of two export cars (not to Canada built in NJ in 6 both basically unrestored and low mileage. One has the export brace but no washers. The other (shipped to Japan) no export brace but with washers.

Have a 69 San Jose built export with export and no washers.

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