New behavior shifting into 3rd gear

  • Lately, my Kar (toploader) has been acting strange upshifting and downshifting into 3rd gear. It isn't during hard driving, and it doesn't happen all the time (maybe 10% of the time?). I will feel a bit of resistance while the clutch is all the way down to the floor while trying to slide the shifter into 3rd. It feels like the clutch is not fully engaged or something, and it will then occassionally sort of "grind" a little. It's like something isn't lined up properly. Again, this happens intermittently and is more of a small nuisance at this point.


    A few years ago, my 2nd gear synchros went to hell, and I couldn't get it into gear without a lot of effort at times. This problem feels a bit different as I don't have to push the lever hard - it just has a little resistance/grind to it at times. I did have the transmission pulled and professionally rebuilt a few years ago, including the shifter. I am not sure if ALL the synchros were replaced, or just the 2nd gear ones.


    Any ideas?

  • Sounds suspeciously like the same issue I had with a later model 4 speed in my '82 GT - but mine was first gear.


    Turned out to be wear on the syncro and a broken tooth on the 1st gear "mesh" side for the syncro - depending upon how you hit it it was either OK or NOT. Very similar to how you describe yours.


    I hope this helps.

  • You may want to change the fluid. If it has a heavy viscosity in there now, say 85W140, that might be the cause of the problem (especially in cool weather.) I've had the same problem myself and switching to a lower viscosity like 75W90 helped quite a bit. I think the lower viscosity allows the syncros to mesh more easily.

  • Troy, Did you ever reach a resolution to your shifting problem? Enquiring minds want to know.


    -Fred-

    65 Koupe early San Jose Phoenician Yellow 4 speed
    66 GT Koupe Dearborn Blue 4 speed
    66 KGT San Jose fastback pony interior Silver Frost 4 speed
    64 Falcon sedan delivery 289 4 speed
    65 Ranchero 289 4 speed
    66 Corvette roadster 427/425 4 speed

  • No solution yet. It's pretty much parked for the winter so I'll address it in the spring. I did send a message to the rebuilder, but did not hear from him on what his opinion may be on the matter.

  • I rebuilt the top loader in my 70 boss 302 a few years ago with the basic rebuild kit the synchros looked good so i reused them as well as all the gears i replaced all shifter bushings and installed a rebuilt shifter , it shifts smoother when i drive it hard vs parking lot manuvers at low rpms.


    Edited by - chucks302 on 11/20/2010 20:58:42

  • Amsoil just came out with an upgraded line of gear oil, superior to all others including other synthetic oils....independent testing results show. I am not a dealer but the info was sent to me...you might want to check their website since you have the winter to investigate your options. It might be way cheaper to change oil than to rebuild the trany.. <img src=images/icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=images/icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

  • <BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>

    You are not using synthetic gear oil now are you? I understand from David Kee that the Toploaders don't really like synthetic oil and were not designed to run with it.


    http://www.davidkeetoploaders.com

    <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana" size=2 id=quote>


    they certainly weren't designed for it as synthetics didn't exist back then, but...... When I mothballed my T-10 I put in a toploader that D. Kee had restored for me & initially used conventional gear oil. When it came time to change the trans. oil I decided to try Mobil 1 synthetic gear oil. It works fine for me. The warning from D. Kee states that it does work fine for some people, but not for others. The problem is supposed to be when shifting fast, the synthetic oil doesn't provide enough friction for the gear syncros to work properly. Apparently I'm so old I can't shift fast enough to induce this problem so I'm sticking with the synthetic oil for the reduced wear benefits.


    Z.


    Edited by - zrayrichter on 11/24/2010 10:32:21

  • <BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>

    <BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>

    You are not using synthetic gear oil now are you? I understand from David Kee that the Toploaders don't really like synthetic oil and were not designed to run with it.


    http://www.davidkeetoploaders.com

    <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana" size=2 id=quote>


    they certainly weren't designed for it as synthetics didn't exist back then, but...... When I mothballed my T-10 I put in a toploader that D. Kee had restored for me & initially used conventional gear oil. When it came time to change the trans. oil I decided to try Mobil 1 synthetic gear oil. It works fine for me. The warning from D. Kee states that it does work fine for some people, but not for others. The problem is supposed to be when shifting fast, the synthetic oil doesn't provide enough friction for the gear syncros to work properly. Apparently I'm so old I can't shift fast enough to induce this problem so I'm sticking with the synthetic oil for the reduced wear benefits.


    Z.


    Edited by - zrayrichter on 11/24/2010 10:32:21

    <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana" size=2 id=quote>


    Redline synthetic gear oils have different formulations for trannys than rear ends. The I've been using their MT-90, GL-4 spec, in my original close ratio T-10 for at least the last 15 years with great results. It has friction modifiers that allow for proper synchro function so (driver) age is not a factor. <img src=images/icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>


    http://www.redlineoil.com/product.aspx?pid=46&pcid=7

    Dave
    6S1757

  • <BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>

    <BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>

    <BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>

    You are not using synthetic gear oil now are you? I understand from David Kee that the Toploaders don't really like synthetic oil and were not designed to run with it.


    http://www.davidkeetoploaders.com

    <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana" size=2 id=quote>


    they certainly weren't designed for it as synthetics didn't exist back then, but...... When I mothballed my T-10 I put in a toploader that D. Kee had restored for me & initially used conventional gear oil. When it came time to change the trans. oil I decided to try Mobil 1 synthetic gear oil. It works fine for me. The warning from D. Kee states that it does work fine for some people, but not for others. The problem is supposed to be when shifting fast, the synthetic oil doesn't provide enough friction for the gear syncros to work properly. Apparently I'm so old I can't shift fast enough to induce this problem so I'm sticking with the synthetic oil for the reduced wear benefits.


    Z.


    Edited by - zrayrichter on 11/24/2010 10:32:21

    <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana" size=2 id=quote>


    Redline synthetic gear oils have different formulations for trannys than rear ends. The I've been using their MT-90, GL-4 spec, in my original close ratio T-10 for at least the last 15 years with great results. It has friction modifiers that allow for proper synchro function so (driver) age is not a factor. <img src=images/icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>


    http://www.redlineoil.com/product.aspx?pid=46&pcid=7

    <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana" size=2 id=quote>


    the Mobil 1 gear oil also has the friction modifiers that are necessary for limited slip rear ends. I have not had to add any additional friction modifier to make the rear end, a traction lock, to work properly.


    I don't know how that SPECIFICALLY makes it better, or not, for the older transmissions, But as I said earlier it is working OK for me.


    http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/Mo…_75W-140LS.aspx


    http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/Mo…e_75W-90LS.aspx


    Z.

  • I don't know about the Mobil-1 stuff as at a glance I didn't see a GL spec listed but I'll read more about it when I get a chance.


    Redline specifically calls for GL-4 for trannys due to the extra modifiers for synchros. They warn against using GL-5 gear oil, which does have the friction modifiers for limited slip diffs, as it is still too slippery for synchros. I went through this with one of their tech guys before switching to synthetic ~15 years ago.

    Dave
    6S1757

  • <BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>

    <BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>

    You are not using synthetic gear oil now are you? I understand from David Kee that the Toploaders don't really like synthetic oil and were not designed to run with it.


    http://www.davidkeetoploaders.com

    <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana" size=2 id=quote>


    they certainly weren't designed for it as synthetics didn't exist back then, but...... When I mothballed my T-10 I put in a toploader that D. Kee had restored for me & initially used conventional gear oil. When it came time to change the trans. oil I decided to try Mobil 1 synthetic gear oil. It works fine for me. The warning from D. Kee states that it does work fine for some people, but not for others. The problem is supposed to be when shifting fast, the synthetic oil doesn't provide enough friction for the gear syncros to work properly. Apparently I'm so old I can't shift fast enough to induce this problem so I'm sticking with the synthetic oil for the reduced wear benefits.


    Z.


    Edited by - zrayrichter on 11/24/2010 10:32:21

    <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana" size=2 id=quote>


    Z, You've only got a couple of years on me (I'm 53 now) and I don't shift very fast anymore either-(LOL)

  • Apparently I'm so old I can't shift fast enough to induce this problem.


    Z.


    Edited by - zrayrichter on 11/24/2010 10:32:21

    [/quote]


    Jeez I never realised that it would come to this. I am going to get out of this car game whilst I am still young enough <img src=images/icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

  • Interested info. When the new rebuild was fresh, I hated the way it shifted from 1 to 2, espcially when cold. It just didn't seem to want to go in. I reported this to the rebuilder who said it needs time for all the new parts to "mate" to each other. After a couple months with little/no improvement I asked him to switch to synthetic and he said it would be a mistake. It has sense improved a LOT, but still not perfect. An now, the 3rd gear thing..

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