please review/edit my facts

CharlesTurner · December 15, 2007 at 9:24 PM

Yes, yes... you guys got me there! Of course I meant the exhaust portion beyond the H-pipe.

jwc66k: The only way possible to get factory dual exhaust on any 65-66 A code 289 was if it was a GT car.

66gtk · December 16, 2007 at 11:41 AM

So, regarding dual exhaust:

1. A code GTs and K code cars (GT or not) were the only cars available with factory dual exhaust (65-66)?

2. All said above cars with dual exhaust had H pipes, or only K codes?

jwc66k · December 16, 2007 at 12:11 PM

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Yes, yes... you guys got me there! Of course I meant the exhaust portion beyond the H-pipe.

jwc66k: The only way possible to get factory dual exhaust on any 65-66 A code 289 was if it was a GT car.

Not true. As I said, it was a special order 1966 non-GT 'A' code engine Fastback built in Metuchen. If your statement was true, then there were no non-dual exhaust Mustangs in 1964 1/2 thru March of 65 (the intro of the GT option) and the Performance Image Option (dual exhaust) was bogus. Sorry - you're incorrect.

Jim

bobmannel · December 16, 2007 at 8:48 PM

In a 1968 Ford Master Parts catalog I have, there is a footnote to both the 1965 and 1966 Mustang GT system which states "Optional on all other body types with 289 engine".

The April 1965 Ford Master Parts catalog was the one that listed a "Performance Image Option". The system listed was the Arvinode system with the regular H-pipe and trumpet tips. I am not sure if this was just an early name for the GT or not. Ford gave a date of 3-22-66 in its parts catalog for elimination of the Arvinode system, but a date of 4-2-65 for Metuchen and Dearborn, and 4-4-65 for San Jose in its Technical Service Bulletin Article #315. After those dates, the Arvinode front glass-pack was replaced with an oval muffler. I have not heard of a GT with the Arvinode system. Maybe someone here has. The elimination of the Arvinode and the introduction of the GT occurred about the same time.

Be that as it may, there were probably few dual exhaust system non-GT/non-HiPo Mustangs. My guess is that the customer would have had to order the system and wait for delivery. Most people buy cars off the lot. So, if Ford did not push the option by delivering Mustangs to the dealers with the option already installed, I doubt we will run across very many of them. But, it was available. Nothing I have seen says it was available only for the A-code. Might have been for the C-code as well, though I couldn't imagine someone ordering a C-code with duals if they were performance oriented. For all practical purposes, it was the GTs and HiPos that got dual exhaust.

What is needed to really clear this up is a dealer options book for 1965 or 66. Must be one somewhere.

CharlesTurner · December 16, 2007 at 9:32 PM

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Not true. As I said, it was a special order 1966 non-GT 'A' code engine Fastback built in Metuchen. If your statement was true, then there were no non-dual exhaust Mustangs in 1964 1/2 thru March of 65 (the intro of the GT option) and the Performance Image Option (dual exhaust) was bogus. Sorry - you're incorrect.

Jim

Please provide more information about this supposed A code non-GT with factory dual exhaust. Would like to see your proof. There is nowhere on the dealer order sheet or dealer price list where "dual exhaust" is a line item. A car specially ordered is not the norm and would have taken some strings to pull to get such a car produced.

I never said there were not any non-dual exhaust cars before the GT's came out, that is ridiculous. Only K codes would have had dual exhaust before the GT cars were produced. After that, only K codes and A code GT's could have dual exhaust.

CharlesTurner · December 16, 2007 at 9:49 PM

Bob:

I have a copy of the April 1965 Dealer Mustang Price list, which shows the updated prices (including the GT equipment group). On this price list as the previous, there is no price listed for dual exhaust as a separate item. Dual exhaust is not even listed under the Cobra High Performance Kits section. I do not see how it would be possible to get dual exhaust from the factory on any other 65/66 Mustang besides any K code or an A-code GT.

jwc66k · December 16, 2007 at 10:55 PM

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Bob:

I have a copy of the April 1965 Dealer Mustang Price list, which shows the updated prices (including the GT equipment group). On this price list as the previous, there is no price listed for dual exhaust as a separate item. Dual exhaust is not even listed under the Cobra High Performance Kits section. I do not see how it would be possible to get dual exhaust from the factory on any other 65/66 Mustang besides any K code or an A-code GT.

Not only did I have a special order 'A' code with factory dual exhaust, I took the car to a speed shop and had them remove the 'H' pipe cross-over and weld in a pair of cut-outs. It sounded cool. Hey, I was 24, traded in a 64 Fairlane 500 Sportscoupe 'K' car for the Mustang and wanted the 'sounds'. I also carried a lime green 16 foot canoe on roof racks on that Signalflare Red Fastback when I went white-water canoeing.

Jim

CharlesTurner · December 17, 2007 at 5:15 AM

How sure are you that the exhaust system was factory installed rather than the dealer taking it to a local muffler shop and having duals installed before you took delivery? It would be great if you had more proof.

jwc66k · December 17, 2007 at 10:22 AM

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How sure are you that the exhaust system was factory installed rather than the dealer taking it to a local muffler shop and having duals installed before you took delivery? It would be great if you had more proof.

In a previous post, somebody stated most people buy a car off the lot. I've owned nine new cars in my lifetime and eight were ordered, as in 'not bought off the lot'. My 66 Mustang was the second car I ordered car so I had a bit of experience in ordering. I know what options were listed on the order sheet: 289 engine with a 4 barrel carb; 4 speed; dual exhaust; heavy duty suspension; console; no radio. The owner of the dealership (Harold Kent Ford, Springfield, Mass) was a distant relative so I had an 'in'. I was there when the car was unloaded from the truck and saw what was there. What else can I say?

Jim

CharlesTurner · December 17, 2007 at 11:01 AM

Well that is just it, dual exhaust is NOT on the order sheet. Reference this actual order sheet from 1966:

http://www.early-mustang.com/charles/66_order_sheet.jpg

If you are telling me that you had a special "in" to get the exhaust ordered, then that is fine. But, you are attempting to state that this was a regular production option... which it absolutely was not.

SixT5HiPo · December 17, 2007 at 1:49 PM

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If you are telling me that you had a special "in" to get the exhaust ordered, then that is fine. But, you are attempting to state that this was a regular production option... which it absolutely was not.

If the car was specially ordered, wouldn't the DSO code have 6 digits as well?

CharlesTurner · December 17, 2007 at 2:24 PM

I'm not sure if dual exhaust would require a 6 digit DSO, but it certainly seems feasible. It would be interesting to see the original window sticker and buck tag.

J_Speegle_old · December 17, 2007 at 10:56 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>In a previous post, somebody stated most people buy a car off the lot. I've owned nine new cars in my lifetime and eight were ordered, as in 'not bought off the lot'.............

In the 60's and 70's common practice was to order and wait for your car to be built rather than buying off the lot/from inventory from everything I saw. Just was not what most people were used to. Of course this changed through the years likely to the "want it now" baby boomers

Just a little observation

Edited by - J_Speegle on 12/17/2007 22:57:36

289kford · December 18, 2007 at 6:32 AM

In the 65 repair book (Sept 64), under dual exhaust, it shows 4v Fairlane, HIPO Fairlane, and HIPO Mustang (with transverse system). Thare is no section for a 4v Mustang. As a side note, the K Fairlane pic looks alot like an Arvinode, the 4v is a typical exhaust.

This was something I never noticed. As a kid growing up, I assumed that the cars that had dual exhaust were 4v, and 4v cars had dual exhaust.

Wasn't one of the early K Fairlanes built with single exhaust?

Edited by - 289kford on 12/18/2007 07:11:33

66gtk · December 18, 2007 at 7:16 AM

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.

This was something I never noticed. As a kid growing up, I assumed that the cars that had dual exhaust were 4v, and 4v cars had dual exhaust.

Edited by - 289kford on 12/18/2007 07:11:33

Exactly what I used to think as well. I wonder why? Maybe we all read a misinformed article/book on the subject of 4V cars back in the 80s or something.

C6ZZKGT · December 18, 2007 at 7:25 AM Official Post

There was a Ford add on dual exhaust kit for all 260 and 289 Mustang engines, C5ZZ 5210 A, that included mufflers and pipes. Other than the muffler part numbers, I have not as yet come up with the numbers for the other components as they may have only been available as a kit. The mufflers are round with dimensions of 4 inch diameter and 17 inches long. They are not the Arvinode type of muffler as I ordered them some years ago and found out the hard way. I had thought at the time that I was coming up with an Arvinode replacement. I actually do have a half dozen of them as they were thought at one time to be the correct ones for a 65 Shelby.

-Fred-

CharlesTurner · December 18, 2007 at 7:40 AM

There's a guy that's been trying to sell one of those mufflers on ebay for about a year or so now... claiming it is a correct replacement muffler. I think I might have one.

Glad that others are weighing in on this subject. While details such as this may seem mundane at times, it is for the benefit of the hobby to get to the bottom of these challenges (here or anywhere else). None of us claim to know everything. Learning new things keeps this hobby interesting!

bobmannel · December 18, 2007 at 7:44 AM

The 1963-64 Fairlane 289 HiPo before about 4-13-64 had a 2½" diameter single exhaust system. The Y-pipe was 2" diameter from the exhaust manifolds down to the union, where they entered a 3" diameter pipe for about a one foot length before narrowing down to a 2½" outlet. After 4-13-64 the single exhaust system was replaced by the Arvinode dual exhaust system.

bobmannel · December 18, 2007 at 7:50 AM

C5ZZ-5210-A was part of the Cobra kit line of options. There was one for the 63-65 Falcon under the part number C4DZ-5210-A. The Falcon kit was a fairly "cheesy" kit, IMHO, where you had to cut and cap the cross-under pipe. A new pipe bolted to the left exhaust manifold and 4" round Thrusher-type muffler was installed. On the right side the regular muffler was replaced by the 4" round one provided. There was no connection between left and right side.

bobmannel · December 18, 2007 at 7:55 AM

On the 66 order form I noticed that the limited-slip was written on the bottom and not included as an item on the form. This seems to suggest there were more options available to the dealer than were listed on the form. What was the dealer using to write down the additional options at the bottom of the order form? That is what needs to be checked for any options of dual exhaust before the option can be rule available or not.

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