hipo automatic C-4's

dunc289_old · November 20, 2009 at 12:12 PM

Given that automatic hipo's are not everyone's cup of tea on this site, those who DO have an automatic hipo have a vested interest in KNOWING that the internals are the real deal..I have such an animal and am now actively trying to compile a list of those who have one too. Bob Mannnel and I have spent some time, energy and money getting info accumulated to address C-4 questions and challenges, and a sub-circle of friends here who have the same transmissions would be a network worth putting together. Sooo.... if you have one, know someone who does, or have a lead, please send me a PM and let me know.

Thanks for everyones help here...

Duncan <img src=images/icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=images/icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

tractionbar · November 27, 2009 at 11:07 PM

Duncan, I have one rat holed away for my car. Was planning on using it when I bring it back to some resemblence of original. What are you looking for? Charlie

dunc289_old · November 28, 2009 at 8:47 AM

Actually, I'm looking to verify genuine hipo C-4's. When you are ready, I think I can help you make sure the internals have not been tampered with. The servo is different, and the relief springs inside that control the " hardness " if I may use the expression,of the shift, are different, and I have had made, with Bob Mannel's valuable assistance, correct replacement springs. If it is discovered that your springs have been replaced, as well as the valve body [which has different size holes where the fluid flows to control the shift] then to get the original performance you need to drill the holes and use my springs.

Therefore, hold onto the C-4, and when you are ready, if you wish, we will address its internals and go from there. Did it come from a fastback or?? <img src=images/icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=images/icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

rr64_old · November 28, 2009 at 11:02 AM

How about the C4s installed in Cobras, where they special units too? Roughly 30 Cobras completed after August 1964 received automatic transmissions. Scant information uncovered leads me to believe the engines were six bolt HP289s assembled to Mustang chassis specifications except for getting outfited for automatic transmissions. Of that small number originally delivered with automatic transmissions just a few are believed to have their original transmissions still. When did the high performance version of the C4 automatic get introduced?

C6ZZKGT · November 28, 2009 at 12:00 PM Official Post

1964 Fairlanes were available with a 289 Hipo and C4 automatic trans.

-Fred-

rr64_old · November 28, 2009 at 1:34 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>

1964 Fairlanes were available with a 289 Hipo and C4 automatic trans.

-Fred-

Thanks. I don't think I have seen one of them. Where was the shift lever?

C6ZZKGT · November 28, 2009 at 1:37 PM Official Post

Dan, The only one that I have seen was a Sports Coupe and it, of course, was on the floor.

-Fred-

dunc289_old · November 28, 2009 at 6:13 PM

Interesting point, I don't know anyone who has ever SEEN the inside of a Real Cobra C-4. All I can do is check with Bob Mannel, he has a fairlane hipo automatic, but I believe it is a 1965. Stay tuned....

C6ZZKGT · November 29, 2009 at 12:08 AM Official Post

Dan, I actually did not remember correctly as the 1964 Fairlane automatic shifter was on the column and not in the console.

-Fred-

cobrajeff_old · November 29, 2009 at 10:38 AM

I have seen inside a 289 Cobra HiPo C4. The Bordinat Cobra, CSX#3001, has a 289 HiPo/C4 powertrain in it. I cleaned up and detailed the car prior to the SAAC 29 Convention in 2004. The car was "decommissioned" before Ford donated it to the museum - the intake/carb, cylinder heads, cam, distributor, crank damper, etc., had been removed. I believe the engine was a 5-bolt HiPo (5-bolt C4 bellhousings WERE available, they are SCARCE, but they ARE out there - the '64 HiPo Fairlane C4's would all have been 5-bolt blocks). The transmission was intact, including the "C" intermediate servo and the correct "1U" valve body.

I would be reasonably sure that all of the factory 289 automatic Cobras had 5-bolt blocks, and the same HiPo C4 tranny as the '64-65 Fairlanes (except for a Mustang style floor shift).

regards,

Jeff

Edited by - cobrajeff on 11/29/2009 10:41:10

rr64_old · November 29, 2009 at 11:49 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>

I would be reasonably sure that all of the factory 289 automatic Cobras had 5-bolt blocks, and the same HiPo C4 tranny as the '64-65 Fairlanes (except for a Mustang style floor shift).

regards,

Jeff

Dick R. owns CSX2580 which was factory completed with an automatic transmission. Based on his e-mails on the subject his original engine has a six bolt block. I have never spent much time investigating the automatic transmission cars because now even if they have automatics they aren't usually the one the car was shipped with. Quite a few Cobras don't have their original engines or transmissons. I just sent Dick an e-mail to see what other information on the automatic transmission equipped cars he might have. Cobras assembled after August 1964 had all kinds of oddities. The invoice for one car sold new mid 1965 indicated it had full competition "Mustang" 289 engine in it for example. Mike G. still has an original automatic transmission Cobra. I just called him and he is sure that it is a six bolt engine original to his car. Six bolt is what I expect for factory automatics in cars completed after August 1964.

It would be great to find a unmolested group of 1-4V Cobras finished after August 1964 to get a look at the engine tags. The only car that I know of that fits that description is a four speed car with a manual transmission. Cars that got 2-4Vs at SAI or aftermarket inductions any time later seem to have lost their engine tags.

Edited by - rr64 on 11/29/2009 12:56:20

rr64_old · November 29, 2009 at 4:36 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>

Dick R. owns CSX2580 which was factory completed with an automatic transmission. <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Dick responded that the transimssions were for the 1965 model year of HP289 Fairlane with C4. His original engine is a six bolt HP289 and that should be the norm for Cobras with automatics.

Edited by - rr64 on 11/29/2009 17:14:11

SixT5HiPo · November 30, 2009 at 12:13 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>

...I believe the engine was a 5-bolt HiPo (5-bolt C4 bellhousings WERE available, they are SCARCE, but they ARE out there - the '64 HiPo Fairlane C4's would all have been 5-bolt blocks). <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Here's a question: Are the automatic 1964 K code 289 "5 bolt" bellhousings the same as the 5 bolt "C" code automatic bellhousings?

Richard P. · November 30, 2009 at 3:28 AM

I don't think the C code engine (289 2V) was available until 1965. The only C code engines I've seen were 6 bolt. Ford did use a 5 bolt D code engine in 1964.

GT Joe_old · November 30, 2009 at 5:51 PM

Automatic transmission bellhousings are all the same for 5 bolt blocks. The 6 bolt bellhousings for automatic transmissions are the same also.

Joe

Edited by - GT Joe on 11/30/2009 17:52:51

sdully88_old · November 30, 2009 at 10:18 PM

Is anyone reproducing the servo and or valve body? I have an A code auto I would like to shift firmer. Could aleays go with a shift kit or aftermarket valve body but I think it would be cool to have something along these lines.

SixT5HiPo · December 1, 2009 at 1:15 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>

I don't think the C code engine (289 2V) was available until 1965. The only C code engines I've seen were 6 bolt. Ford did use a 5 bolt D code engine in 1964.

Although the C code 289 wasn't originally offered in the 64.5 Mustangs, the C code 289 was available in 1964 on the Fairlanes, Comets, and Galaxies. The 289 "V" badge was gold anodized on the Fairlanes. I had a '64 Sports Coupe that had a 5 bolt factory C code 289 with a B-W 4 speed. I swapped the engine with an over the counter "crate" HiPo in 1969...

kar-nut_old · December 1, 2009 at 10:17 PM

The 289 Hipo C4 governer is also different.

http://www.fordsmallblock.com/PDF/289-HiPo-C4.pdf

dunc289_old · December 2, 2009 at 5:43 PM

First, the C servo is different, and yes, they are available.

The valve body is different, but the required changes are modest and not difficult if you have things apart. there are two holes that need to be opened up a very small amount, and a pair of my springs I had made should be the last parts needed.

timjshanahan_old · December 3, 2009 at 9:03 PM

I think I have all of the needed parts to make a standard C-4 a C-servo C-4. They are NOS pieces and are still in the boxes. I purchased them on Ebay many years ago. If they can be of help, let me know. Thanks

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