finally I got it, but !

franKcode_old · July 10, 2008 at 10:16 PM

Hi every body,

as a K and shelby fanatic and owning a 67 GT-350, I finally bought my GT K coupe that I was looking for 10 years. I spotted this coupe in a body shop in Montreal, Quebec (1997) where I went to make an estimate for the insurance company that I work. The car was sitting there beside a 1963 t-bird. The owner explained to me that he bought the Koupe from Oklahoma with all the transactions paper since 1970 including the owner card, owner manual with the original first owner and the serial number typed in it. Everything on the car is original and all number mathing, the only thing the owner did is an engine rebuilt and took care about all the tags (carburator and engine tag). The rest of the kar need to be restore, the structure is very solid with only a small hole in the left front floor pan (2¨x4) and in the quarters panels. The paint is original in about 80%. The kar is in the registry ¨fourth edition¨. The guy was not willing to sell it but every time I went there we spoke togeter about cars, btw I bought his 63 t-bird and drove it during a year 1/2. One day he said to me that he was ready to sell it to my because he known that I am a very fanatic about hi-performance mustang but the price was very too high at my eyes. 2 years ago, I return to the garage to see if the car was there , and what I founded war a closed garage with no more information about this. I was very disapointed and regreted to past beside this koupe. BUT a miracle arrived 1 month ago when one of my good friend (a used car seller and another mustang nut)called me to ask me if I was interesting about a midnight blue 66 GT K code ??????????, I saided what? not the one I was looking for , and finally I jumped on it. So this is my history . There is only one bug on this K, everything is coresponding except one important point, the serial number in the left front apron is stamp with a T insteed of A K and I garantied that the kar is a real gt k code, the fact that the kar is not restore can show the truth but once restore , people will say that it's a clone with a 6 cylinder!!!!!.

I did not remove the right fender to see if the serial number is ok, but plan to do this in the next 2 month.

What do you suggest?.

Thank's

Edited by - franKcode on 07/15/2008 15:44:53

C6ZZKGT · July 11, 2008 at 12:22 AM Official Post

A friend of mine had a 66 Hipo fastback with the same "T" code on the fender apron. It was definitely a Ford error as everything else checked out. It was long enough ago that I do not remember more details but I can ask him as he possibly will remember.

-Fred-

RPM_old · July 11, 2008 at 7:20 PM

Seems like sometime back that same car was brought up on this forum.You may do a search to see if you can find the topic as I'm pretty sure it was the same car.Either someone else seen it or it was forsale or something like that...Good Luck!

J_Speegle_old · July 11, 2008 at 7:40 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>

Hi every body,

........... There is only one bug on this K, everything is corresponding except one important point, the serial number in the left front apron is stamp with a T instead of a K and I guaranteed that the kar is a real gt k code, the fact that the kar is not restore can show the truth but once restore , people will say that it's a clone with a 6 cylinder!!!!!.

I did not remove the right fender to see if the serial number is ok, but plan to do this in the next 2 month.

What do you suggest?.

I would have suggested that you had pulled the front fenders BEFORE you purchased the car!!! Sorry you asked.

Left with the fact that you now own the car I would do the following

1- Don't assume anything. Cars have been fakes and rebodied (though they were not done as carefully) since almost day one (know cars that were done when the real car was a year old) In the same case there are examples of factory screw up though these can haunt owners forever

2- Systematically go through the car from one end to the other objectively listing what you find. Things such as the frame, supports, body, sheet metal dates, evidence of repair or replacement,.......

3- Then look at the total findings of what you should have found and what you should not have found (always considering the logical reason for what you did find)

4- Draw your conclusion from the total evidence remembering that it only takes one thing not to make it a real K code and more than allot of things to make it one.

Hope your search turns up what you thought you purchased and the truth

Good luck

oscart_old · July 11, 2008 at 8:14 PM

The first strike against the car is that it was at a bodyshop in Montreal Quebec. Why did the bodyshop close? Did the guy retire or did he just go out of business. Assume the guy is not telling the truth about the car and try to find previous owners or documentation. Chances are the original car was wreaked early in its life when old Mustangs were cheap and all the good stuff was transfered to the T car. Prolly done honestly by an owner that really was not out to fool anyone. Check the front clip carefully to see if it is the original front end as well. If it turns out to be a re-body with all hipo parts, you may be well ahead to sell the hipo parts and sell the shell separate. JMHO

oscart_old · July 11, 2008 at 8:54 PM

Here is a quick check. If it was a T car, it would not have the original dual exhaust bolts located below the rear seats. Check to see if they look original and unmodified. The floor should still have the original interior paint and if everything looks genie then that is a good sign. If not, then that may be your first clue as to how this Mustang started its life as.

franKcode_old · July 11, 2008 at 10:25 PM

thank's for your help, I will try to show you pics of my Koupe.As a body man I did not find anything wrong like a rebodied or sections replaced, every panels are original.Once I can get time I will remove the front fenders to see other stamps

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RPM_old · July 12, 2008 at 1:07 PM

From looking at the pics I would say the car is legit and is another or the same car factory screw up.I would think that Ford would have pulled the car after inspector checked car but stranger things have happened!

okpony_old · July 13, 2008 at 2:13 PM

I sold this factory mis-stamped Hi-Po GT coupe to the gentleman in Canada shortly after i retired in 93, i had owned it about 12 years, it was added to the registry while in my possession, it is the third 66 engine code mistamp i have seen, in fact just purchased a convertible GT mis-stamped T instead of A. If you check the other stampings on both inner fenders they will all be mis-stamped the same as the one you can see. There are many ways to tell a factory dual exhaust car and this coupe has them all, the bumper plate welded to the under side of the floor for the 9" rear end bumper rubber to impact is only on factory 9" rear end cars and this for 65/66 Mustangs is the K code and Shelby Mustangs only, this coupes bumper plate is correct. All of these check points are in the Mustang K book written by Tony Gregory now in it's 4th printing, i believe. Hope this is helpful.

oscart_old · July 13, 2008 at 3:10 PM

Is the door tag original to the car?

Belmont_old · July 13, 2008 at 3:14 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>the bumper plate welded to the under side of the floor for the 9" rear end bumper rubber to impact is only on factory 9" rear end cars and this for 65/66 Mustangs is the K code and Shelby Mustangs only <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Beg to differ but A code GT's could also have that same bumper plate.

okpony_old · July 13, 2008 at 3:49 PM

Speaking of when the car was mine the data tag on the door was original to the car and the one pictured looks to be it, the original warranty card that agreed with the data tag was also in the car, also the original owners manual that was completed by the dealer selling the car was also in the car and the data also agreed with the data on the door tag. Have never seen a A code 65/66 with a 9" rear end from the factory, was involved with Mustangs from 73-98 and have owned about 150 and seen many more, perhaps an A code could have been special ordered with the 9", that i do not know.

65gtfastback_old · July 13, 2008 at 11:32 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>

Beg to differ but A code GT's could also have that same bumper plate.

I have also never heard of this? Could you be confusing the snubber plate with dual exhaust reinforcing plates under the rear seat?

I responded to your email Frank, I gave you a bunch of things to check for verification.

What are you doing for lunch tomorrow, I'm going to be out your way, maybe I could finally drop in to see it?

All the best,

Paul

Belmont_old · July 14, 2008 at 2:33 AM

I may have misunderstood which bumper plate you refer to but this pic of an A code GT was kindly posted by Charles Turner a while back. [Blocked Image: http://i36.tinypic.com/21ezr5g.jpg]

CharlesTurner · July 14, 2008 at 7:18 AM

The bumper plate was carried over to A code dual exhaust cars (GT's), since they just utilized the existing rear build-up for dual exhaust.

CharlesTurner · July 14, 2008 at 7:20 AM

Here's a pic... obviously has the rubber bumper screwed to it on an A code though...

http://www.early-mustang.com/charles/vert/1…_3_05%20007.jpg

Edited by - caspian65 on 07/14/2008 07:20:47

franKcode_old · July 14, 2008 at 4:26 PM

I am very happy to see that someone here ever owned this kar, wow,!Probably I have all the documentations that you gave to the men who sell this kar to me, the owner card, owner manual with the original owner name in it and transactions from 1970,

btw there is a way to know if we can contact this person?. does I can put his name on this post? and it is possible to find the original invoice?

here are some pics about gt identification

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marv · July 16, 2008 at 10:35 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>

Speaking of when the car was mine the data tag on the door was original to the car and the one pictured looks to be it, the original warranty card that agreed with the data tag was also in the car, also the original owners manual that was completed by the dealer selling the car was also in the car and the data also agreed with the data on the door tag. Have never seen a A code 65/66 with a 9" rear end from the factory, was involved with Mustangs from 73-98 and have owned about 150 and seen many more, perhaps an A code could have been special ordered with the 9", that i do not know.

Having ordered new Fords back in this time period, I'm quite sure that you could not order an A-Code with a 9" Rear End.

RalphJr · July 16, 2008 at 11:03 AM

I think from previous posts and discussions we have clearly established that a TRUE "A code" factory GT car DID use the same chassis metal build as ALL HiPos (obviously built from Spring '65 on).

What this means is that originally the HiPo was the only Mustang avaiable with a dual exhaust set up from the "factory" - this included the relocation of the rear brake hose and various other metal changes like the rear muffler supports under the seat and depending upon when the car was built different frame rail supports for the tail pipes.

Now add to this that all HiPos received the 9" rear end - therefore they received a different axle bumper plate as part of the floor pan.

Now keep in mind that FORD would have been thinking of manufacturing efficiency and COST. So when they launched the "GT" cars with dual exhaust included, they needed a metal frame set up for this. They didn't "create" a new one model only frame build for the "A code" cars - they aready had what they needed with the K code metal set up.

This is another way to confirm a "FACTORY" GT car if it is an A code.

Somebody can correct me if I'm wrong, but based upon my 25+ years working with early 'stangs only the K code had "factory" dual exhaust and a 9" rear end - only a factory A code GT had "factory" dual exhaust.

I have never seen a documented plain Jane A code or C code car with factory duals or a 9".

Back to the point of the original post --- <img src=images/icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle> --- franKcode --- You my man have a rare conversation piece. If everything checks out as you have described you have a very rare factory mis-stamp. Guard your documentation with your LIFE! And enjoy the car!<img src=images/icon_smile_cool.gif border=0 align=middle>

If you do a full resto on the car I would document every aspect of the metal frame in raw metal as part of the proof that the frame is virgin and only the VIN stamp is incorrect.

One word of advice though - CAREFULLY approach this subject with your local DMV. I know in Georgia they are a little picky about the VIN stamp. That is what they use to ID the car - door tags and other documentation don't count. They even cut out VINs from theft recovery cars! and assign then a new "Georgia sequential VIN". Just make sure that if you ever sell the car that the new owner is aware to be careful - laws vary state to state.

J_Speegle_old · July 16, 2008 at 10:43 PM

As mentioned above you need to be very careful (there is NO TURNING back once you make the DMV aware of the mistake) Would be interesting if we had an independent "expert" in your state that could work as a subject matter expert to help smooth things.

Things can get ugly to the point where the car is seized and you have to prove your fact.

In other cases (as RalphJr mentioned) cars VIN is wiped off the car and it’s given a new number just like a salvaged car (see below)

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"I have never seen a documented plain Jane A code or C code car with factory duals "

No reason to get off thread/topic

Participate now!