over heating

duke96_old · September 16, 2007 at 12:38 PM

i finally got my car running and on the road. but for some

reason i am having trouble with my coolant system. i have come

to the conclusion that my problem is a blown head gasket. i the car runs fine runs at a normal temp sometimes a little warm but nothing more than 205-210. after i am done driving there is antifreeze all over my engine bay from my overflow. there is no air pockets in it and the system is getting enough pressure on a 14lbs cap to blow it out. so am i right that its a head gasket or could it possibly be something else. please help.

Duke

chucks302 · September 16, 2007 at 3:52 PM

Check to see if there is coolant flow in the radiator after the thermostat opens at operating temp, be carful when you remove the cap as not to get burned if you keep the rpms obove 1500 when you slowly remove the cap you should be ok, you should see flow, also pressure test the system, check spark plugs for a trace of coolant, as in a green tint on a plug,perform a cylinder leakdown test, is the thermostat installed correctly or backwards ?

duke96_old · September 16, 2007 at 4:13 PM

i am getting flow after the system reaches the thermostat temp of 180. i have the thermostat in the correct way. when my car is just sitting everything is fine, but when i drive it and have it reving up higher thats when i believe it is coming out of my overflow. this is why i think that it is the head gaskets. if its not the head gaskets what could it be?

Duke

C6ZZKGT · September 16, 2007 at 6:32 PM Official Post

I had a similar problem with one of my Kars and it turned out to be a pretty badly plugged radiator. Take your radiator cap off when it is cold and look for rust and junk plugging up tops of the radiator core tubes. Mustangs are known for getting rust loose in the system and plugging the radiator. I use a Gano filter to keep this from happening on my Kars that I drive.

-Fred-

chucks302 · September 17, 2007 at 4:34 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>

I had a similar problem with one of my Kars and it turned out to be a pretty badly plugged radiator. Take your radiator cap off when it is cold and look for rust and junk plugging up tops of the radiator core tubes. Mustangs are known for getting rust loose in the system and plugging the radiator. I use a Gano filter to keep this from happening on my Kars that I drive.

-Fred-

<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>Fred can you give some info on the Gano filter i have a older E-150 that i use for hauling from time to time i might want to try it thanks, chuck.

C6ZZKGT · September 17, 2007 at 5:13 AM Official Post

Hi Chuck,

If you give me the upper radiator hose inside diameter, I will see if there is a Gano filter available for your truck. Here is a couple of links that shows different pictures of the filter. The ones I use are the brass ones as they do not crack like the plastic ones can.

http://www.jag-lovers.org/xj-s/book/CoolantFilters.html

http://www.cal-mustang.com/showdetl-7-3340-20-0.html

-Fred-

65Rangoon_old · September 17, 2007 at 5:43 AM

In an 'open' cooling system, if the radiator is filled to the top of the neck with the engine cold, virtually without fail excess expanding coolant will be forced out of the overflow as the engine & coolant reach normal operating temp. It will continue this purging until enough space is created to contain the hot coolant without dumping it overboard.

Perhaps that is what you are experiencing with your car. It's not a malfunction, and the only way to 'fix' it is to convert to a 'closed' cooling system with a coolant recovery tank.

[Blocked Image: http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid157/p4f8ee1bd214d6f407a7e7df72a842ee9/f5253efc.jpg]

round2K_old · September 17, 2007 at 7:56 AM

Before you disassemble the motor you ought to fully explore the cooling system including flow testing the radiator at a professional radiator shop equipped with a flow tester. If the car has a blown head gasket there will likely be other tell-tale signs like coolant in the oil, or steam from the tailpipe. If you are convinced it is a head gasket you might want to confirm it with a leak-down test prior to disassembly.

66tiger_old · September 17, 2007 at 10:21 AM

My experience with blown head gaskets is that the engine temp will steadily rise and keep climbing from initial startup, until it pukes coolant out, since the cooling system is continually being pressurized.

If one of the head gaskets was installed backwards, it will act like you initially described, not really overheating until you are out driving the car. Is this the first time you have fired the engine up after a rebuild?

If not did it run hot before? If it hasn't had any internal work and ran okay before, I would suspect the radiator being clogged.

Rohan_old · September 17, 2007 at 1:16 PM

I had the same problem with an Australian musclecar some years ago. Same symptoms - would push out fluid after driving the car, but didnt run hot. Car idled fine and didnt push fluid outwhen idling. We did the dreaded C02 test by removing the radiator cap and there was a small amount of carbon monoxide in the cooling system. Took the heads off and they required decking (milling), were very slightly warped. Car ran perfect afterwards.

Do the c02 test to see if there is carbon monoxide in the cooling system first, then could be just a dud head gasket but get the heads checked for trueness while they are off.

kar-nut_old · September 17, 2007 at 1:53 PM

Are you sure you don't have the head gaskets on backwards? You should see a square tab protruding on the front of the engine between the cylinder head & mounting surface of the block near the exhaust manifold. If the tabs are on the rear of the engine thay are on backwards & will not allow coolant flow.

duke96_old · September 17, 2007 at 5:34 PM

this is not the first time the motor has been running this year. i have had the car running and driving since july. however i have had this problem since i first started it. there was some evidence that this motor was doing this before i rebuilt it, having antifreeze stains in the motor compartment. as for the radiator, i wouldn't think that it would be clogged because its new, but the antifreeze tends to end up looking a brown color after it has been run for a while. if it was clogged a little would that make it pressurise like it is on my car? i have already flushed the system and radiator once and i still have this problem. i checked to see if the tabs were on the front of the block and they are so most likely the gaskets are on right. i do have internal work done to the motor like higher comp pistons, cam, roller rockers and intake. i don't think that the system is one of those find its own level type, after it blows out antifreeze its down at least a half gallon depending on how long i drive it for. warped heads is another thing i was thinking of checking but that obviously won't happen until it comes apart. please keep all the advise coming its all appreciated.

Duke

chucks302 · September 17, 2007 at 5:55 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>

Hi Chuck,

If you give me the upper radiator hose inside diameter, I will see if there is a Gano filter available for your truck. Here is a couple of links that shows different pictures of the filter. The ones I use are the brass ones as they do not crack like the plastic ones can.

http://www.jag-lovers.org/xj-s/book/CoolantFilters.html

http://www.cal-mustang.com/showdetl-7-3340-20-0.html

-Fred-

<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>Fred thanks for the info the links provide all i need i agree with the brass filter, chuck.

C6ZZKGT · September 17, 2007 at 7:07 PM Official Post

Duke,

You have not stated that you have looked inside the radiator with the cap off as yet. I have experienced a plugged radiator with very short running times just by the leftover loose rust in the block. You have stated that the coolant turns brown from rust so I still think a plugged radiator is a strong possiblity. If you have a three or four core radiator with the smaller than standard tubes, this will trap rust even faster. The radiator will normally build up a certain amount of pressure and when shut off can puke out enough coolant to need a refill to keep from overheating.

-Fred-

66tiger_old · September 17, 2007 at 8:57 PM

You mentioned higher compression pistons, what compression ratio are you running? High compression ratio & low octane unleaded gas = higher engine temps.

Having a brown coolant color sounds like left over rust in the block prior to rebuild or engine sitting with just water in it. That stuff will clog a radiator in a hurry. The brown color might be an indication of combustion gas in the cooling system (blown head gasket).

As mentioned above, you can get a test kit that you replace the radiator cap with the kits modified cap, which lets the coolant gases run out the kits cap and into a bottle of their test fluid, which will change to a specific color with the presence of combustion gases. Fairly cheap, easy way to test for blown head gasket. Compression check will also help

Also, what condition are the radiator hoses? How about the lower radiator hose, does it have the coil spring in it to prevent hose from collapsing under high water pump loads? I have seen them flatten out under high revs on other engines.

Also, try a new quality radiator cap. If the one you have isn't holding pressure, it will allow coolant out sooner. An inexpensive overflow bottle mounted to the drivers front apron might be a good idea until you get things figured out. It will keep alot of the overflow coolant from going all over the engine & it will allow

overflow coolant back in as engine cools off.

Edited by - 66tiger on 09/17/2007 21:21:50

duke96_old · September 20, 2007 at 1:11 PM

Fred,

i think that you might be right. i took my cap off and sure enough there was a ton of rust stuck in the tubes of my radiator. i do have a three row radiator i tried to get as much of the rust out with a magnet, but i have schedualed an appointment to get my system flushed. As for compression ratio i have not the slightest clue the motor was built before i bought the car. i know they are higher because the piston is domed, but its not to radical. i will keep you posted on how it turns out after i get it flushed.

Duke

C6ZZKGT · September 20, 2007 at 2:04 PM Official Post

Duke,

Keep in mind that the rust that you see inside the radiator is a small percentage of what is actually there because you are only able to see the small area around the cap opening. After you have your system flushed out you will still need that Gano filter to preclude this happening again. The only upkeep after that will be to clean the filter once in a while. You may still need to remove the radiator to get it rodded out as the rust clumps will pack themselves inside the radiator tubes, especially if you have a three row with small tubes.

-Fred-

duke96_old · September 22, 2007 at 9:10 AM

Fred,

well i got my radiator flushed and it solved all my problems. come to find out that you were right on the money. the shop told me that they took out almost three buckets of rust and just nasty stuff out of my system. on top of that my radiator cap wasn't holding enough pressure so that didn't help. now it holds the pressure my system does exactly what its supposed to and no more antifreeze all over my engine bay. now its time to drive it and enjoy it instead of driving it and cleaning it. thank you all for the input you guys are never a let down when it comes giving advice.

thanks again

Duke

C6ZZKGT · September 22, 2007 at 5:23 PM Official Post

Duke,

I am happy that everything worked out well for you on the radiator flush. You still need to consider the Gano filter to keep this from happening again.

-Fred-

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