Just for fun I am trying to come up with a way to install an original booster with the DISC master cylinder on my '65.
I know that this was NEVER done by Ford originally but have seen one such setup on a '65 FB a while back in which they cut the shock tower support piece to get it to fit.
I'm thinking the DISC m/c from a '66 7 liter Galaxie (power brakes) since it sure looks the same as the '65-'66 manual DISC m/c will attach to the stock '65 booster....?
why screw up a good car if brakes arent up to your standard being a vintage system you may want to sell it to some one who would love to keep it the way ford intended it to be and buy a 2010 stang then pester ford for all the flaws that you will find
As my post started "JUST FOR FUN" I have absolutely NO intention of cutting anything to make this PROPOSED setup fit my car!
I absolutely would never do that! and IF I do it will be several years down the road after I get all the awards I'm after for my Kar.
For the record my car has not even been on the ground here in Florida since April when I picked it up in Charlotte! so I have not driven it besides the 1/4 mile to the show feild and the 1/4 mile back to my trailer so I really don't know if the darn brakes are ok or not, it has been said that a system with DOT 5 fluid is hard to bleed due to bubbling, and I believe that because the pedal is very spongy-all this has nothing to do with the fact I like to have something different than the next guy and think it would be neat to engineer the booster setup in.
There are retro kits available to convert to dual reservoir power brakes. I don't think you'll be able to fit anything that appears to be factory on a '65 with disc brakes though.
The original manual k/h discs are actually pretty good. Shouldn't be any problem with using silicone, but it wouldn't be unusual to have to bleed a system a few times if everything is completely new. Any air in the lines will eventually work it's way to the wheels.
like i said if you think the brakes on a 1965 car should be the same as the new cars then you are a joker at best not to pick fun at you
but it seens you must have a very nice car and if you would sell it to someone thats in the mustang vintage world they would treat your car with great respect and you can get a new one i only base my thougths on your past posts
Charles, Thanks for your reply as always.
bigal, Sorry, my car is not for sale.
Rick, I have done this swap before and it is successful. Yes, the master cylinder interferes with the left side shock tower brace. I used an export brace to fix that problem as it sits higher and helps to clear the master cylinder. The master cylinder still hits lightly on the brace and you need to give a gentle pry on the cylinder to remove the cap. I did this swap as I was using 10 X 2 1/2" rear shoes with metallic linings and metallic linings for the disc pads. The car had a C6 trans and a Hipo engine and when my wife would back it out of the downward sloped driveway, she had trouble stopping it in the mornings. The booster did help some but being as it was so small compared to some other booster, it was not as effective as I would have liked. Keep in mind that the Mustang booster setup lowers the brake pedal and decreases the brake pedal travel. The linkage multiplies the travel to the master cylinder thereby making it work normally.
-Fred-
Fred, Thanks very much for YOUR reply as well! I am just toying around a bit for when I am finished showing my car and will be driving it some on the weekends, I think the brakes are more than adiquite (sp) now-and like I said I just like having something a bit different without cutting a vehicle up to do it.
Did you just leave the left shock tower brace off your car then? I have probably seen the export brace on many cars but can't place what it looks like.
Did you use the 7 Liter Galaxie DISC brake m/c on your car? I've seen them at the shows and thought they were basicly the same m/c as our manual ones, and thought IT would be the best one to try & make fit the Mustang booster.
I have an original '65 booster & brackets that needs a complete rebuild as its all rusted out.....are the aftermarket replacements such as SS Brakes corp any different?
Like I say I know that the brakes on my car are all new and once I get then blead properly they WILL require more pressure to stop than drum brakes-I completely understand that....I once bought a 1988 base model Ranger pickup with MANUAL discs and IT was a bit tough to stop so I put a booster on that, and I really don't remember any early Mustang with manual discs requiring as much pressure to stop as it did....this is a just for fun project for someday.....
Rick, I left the welded brackets on the shock towers for the shock tower braces intact. That way I could always put everything back as original. It will be necessary to improvise new steel brake lines to the master cylinder as it will be further forward. This way you can save your originals for future use. I used a regular Mustang disc brake master cylinder as early versions do not have the push rod attached and work well with the brake booster.
-Fred-
"I know that this was NEVER done by Ford originally"
I personally do not count it, but Henry Ford II custom hand built car had power disc brakes.
http://www.mustangmonthly.com/featuredvehicl…g/photo_12.html
http://www.mustangmonthly.com/featuredvehicl…_car_paint.html
I drive both my vintage cars with stock non power brakes (front disc) and can say that for driving use, they work just fine. Now, the HERTZ car is another story, and those brakes really do take effort to make them stop.
Edited by - 66gtk on 09/14/2009 06:58:46
Brian, The picture of the Henry Ford II car appears to have a drum brake master cylinder as it has a screw on cap rather than the clip on of the disc brake cylinder. Am I missing something here? The brake pedal does not say disc brake on it either. I did not notice disc brakes as being listed in the article. Maybe that car does not have disc brakes?
-Fred-
To date I have only done a safety check over of my '65 FB brakes involving removing front caliper pistons and cleaning/refitting and similar for rear pistons.
I have also drained the master cyl and replaced the fluid.
The car does stop reasonably well, with the front brakes locking if enough pressure is applied.
However I did want to know what the rears were up to, so I clamped the front flexible hoses and did a test, both the rears did in fact lock but with a lot of pressure.
Now during this winter I intend to replace the master cyl seals and tackle the brake proportioning valve.
I know there are early and late prop valve kits what do you think my
13th April 1965 car is likely to have ?
I will measure the adjustment on the prop valve before I take it apart but wondered how people set these up, is it just trial and error? or is there some science behind it, as I think that a properly set up disc / drum system is unlikely to need a power booster.
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*.................. Now during this winter I intend to replace the master cyl seals and tackle the brake proportioning valve.
I know there are early and late prop valve kits what do you think my
13th April 1965 car is likely to have ?
I will measure the adjustment on the prop valve before I take it apart but wondered how people set these up, is it just trial and error? or is there some science behind it, as I think that a properly set up disc / drum system is unlikely to need a power booster.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana" size=2 id=quote>
there is usually a fair amount of pitting/corrosion in the bore of the proportioning valves. I have never been able to get them to be leak free after putting in a kit. Jim Cowles does a great job of restoring these.
http://www.shelbyparts.com/index.html
Z. Ray
Mark,
If you are going to to do your own rebuid it is best to get the valve apart to determine the correct parts kit. There are a number of people that do the stainless steel sleeving, and the recommended procedure before disassemly of the valve is to measure the distance from the nut to the top of the threaded adjuster to have a baseline for reassembly. You can find a lot of good info here:
http://www.stangerssite.com/brakevalve.html
I agree that once the brakes are set up there's no need for a brake booster.
Edited by - round2K on 09/14/2009 10:06:26
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Mark, "........................... I agree that once the brakes are set up there's no need for a brake booster.
Edited by - round2K on 09/14/2009 10:06:26
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I agree completely. Except for upgraded pads & shoe friction material my brakes are essentially stock. I can lock the brakes at any legal highway speed, and probably at higher speeds as well. In the pre-antilock brake technology era, you can't ask more than that from a braking system.
Z. Ray
Fred you are correct, it is drum brakes. I could have swore I read it had disc brakes with a power booster. There was so much custom and one off stuff I thought it was so. The K/H disc stuff was nothing new in 64.
Edited by - 5F09C on 09/14/2009 17:14:59
Thanks for all the help guys.
I will strip the valve and if the bore is bad I will either send it to Jim or maybe look at getting it sleeved over here.
I am getting really hammered on import tax at the moment so will do some research.
Mark
Edited by - cobraboy on 09/15/2009 02:34:17
There is also a fellow named Mark Frappier you can reach through the Stanger site and he does the stainless sleeving. He WIL NOT reassemble the valve for you due to liability issues.
Cheers Dave
I did send a clock back to the states for repair and labeled it as such and did not get taxed - so that will be the way to go on the valve.
Thanks
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