switching balancers

tater_51_old · August 22, 2009 at 4:53 PM

Would switching from one hipo balancer to another require a complete rebalancing of the rotating assembly?

C6ZZKGT · August 23, 2009 at 12:32 AM Official Post

It is possible to get the new balancer match balanced to the old one. Just speak with a qualified balancing shop.

-Fred-

kar-nut_old · August 24, 2009 at 9:24 AM

This company say's they can balance anything......

http://www.dynotechengineering.com/

BoS_old · August 24, 2009 at 10:32 AM

Was every Ford engine including the 289 HP individually

balanced at the factory? Didn't know that as I read a

publication in the 70's that you could exchange parts like

dampers etc. without a re-balancing needed. Two years ago I

replaced the damper on my 65 and knock on wood, so far no problems and the engine runs very smooth.

/Bo

C6ZZKGT · August 24, 2009 at 11:12 AM Official Post

Bo, when everything was new from Ford I would agree that exchanging one balancer for another would be acceptable. The problem is that 45 years later many of the original balancers have been precision balanced to a particular assembly. Many times the balance people eliminate the extra counterweight (hatchet) for a Hipo and adjust the balance with the harmonic balancer. This would make for a problem when exchanging one balancer for another. That is why I made the suggestion to match balance the harmonic balancers.

-Fred-

tater_51_old · August 24, 2009 at 11:23 AM

Thanks for the info, fact of the matter, the balancer I plan on switching is off a motor that is minus the hatchet because he ran a gear drive instead of timing chain. I know that the assembly had been balanced without the hatchet. I will be rebalancing as it is going on the motor in my car which is balanced with the hatchet. Plan on switching a C30E for the C50E currently on my car.

bobmannel · September 16, 2009 at 11:01 PM

Sorry for the late weigh-in on this subject. I had an unusal situation where I had a low-mileage HiPo engine, complete except for the flywheel. I plan to use this engine without replacing any of the reciprocating or rotating components. It is also going into a Fairlane K-code automatic. So, I needed a HiPo flex-plate. These are impossible to find. But, I came across an NOS 302 flex-plate stamped C8OP-C and decided it would be a good candidate to have it rebalanced from 28.2 oz.-in. to 30.4 oz.-in. Not only does the NOS flex-plate give me perfect ring-gear teeth, but it will be near perfect in imbalance to add to an already perfectly balanced engine (sans flex-plate).

I talked to John Cavataio at Dynotech Engineering Services in Troy, Michigan (248-362-2777) (http://www.dynotechengineering.com/) about what they could do. He said, “we set the flex-plate up on our STR balance machine and compensate for 28.2 oz-in of imbalance on the machine’s dial plate, neutralizing the existing imbalance. We then add 2.2 oz-in of material 180 degrees from the comp weight to raise the imbalance to 30.4 oz-in.” My cost was $175. Now I have a perfectly functioning HiPo flex-plate to add to my engine assembly. Dynotech's workmanship was first-class as can be seen in the photo below.

[Blocked Image: http://www.fordsmallblock.com/Pictures/flex-plate-HiPo.jpg]

kar-nut_old · September 17, 2009 at 6:41 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>

Sorry for the late weigh-in on this subject. I had an unusal situation where I had a low-mileage HiPo engine, complete except for the flywheel. I plan to use this engine without replacing any of the reciprocating or rotating components. It is also going into a Fairlane K-code automatic. So, I needed a HiPo flex-plate. These are impossible to find. But, I came across an NOS 302 flex-plate stamped C8OP-C and decided it would be a good candidate to have it rebalanced from 28.2 oz.-in. to 30.4 oz.-in. Not only does the NOS flex-plate give me perfect ring-gear teeth, but it will be near perfect in imbalance to add to an already perfectly balanced engine (sans flex-plate).

I talked to John Cavataio at Dynotech Engineering Services in Troy, Michigan (248-362-2777) (http://www.dynotechengineering.com/) about what they could do. He said, “we set the flex-plate up on our STR balance machine and compensate for 28.2 oz-in of imbalance on the machine’s dial plate, neutralizing the existing imbalance. We then add 2.2 oz-in of material 180 degrees from the comp weight to raise the imbalance to 30.4 oz-in.” My cost was $175. Now I have a perfectly functioning HiPo flex-plate to add to my engine assembly. Dynotech's workmanship was first-class as can be seen in the photo below.

[Blocked Image: http://www.fordsmallblock.com/Pictures/flex-plate-HiPo.jpg]

Wise choice Bob, Dynotech does excellent work........ They can evaluate and balance full running drivetrain systems.

[Blocked Image: http://www.dynotechengineering.com/images/vehicle%20balance.jpg]

Edited by - kar-nut on 09/17/2009 07:03:31

cobraboy · September 17, 2009 at 1:43 PM

Ok an engine needs to be balanced to enable it to run at high rpm's.

and all the rotating parts are balanced inc crank, pulley, clutch, pistons, con rods.

Why are Ford engines set up with an imbalance ie the HiPo at 30.4 oz ?

What does this actualy mean, what is out of balance, and why ?

bobmannel · September 17, 2009 at 7:01 PM

There was insufficient room inside the engine to put all the counterweighting required to balance the engine. Here is a link to a PDF that will explain it all -- or at least, quite a bit.

http://www.fordsmallblock.com/PDF/SmallBlockV8Balancing.pdf

BoS_old · September 17, 2009 at 9:35 PM

Bob,

I read in a speed shop catalog that you could replace

a standard harmonic balancer with a HiPo one as long as you

added the counter weight. This was in 1977. In 1978 I did the change to a 1968 289 standard engine and drove the car that way until I found an original and complete 289 HiPo engine which was put into the car in 1984. The car by the way was a Shelby 67.

Consequently, I drove the car for 6 years with this set up

and never had any problems. The car at that time had a C4 trans.

Occationally I took her to 6000rpm.

/Bo

SixT5HiPo · September 17, 2009 at 11:55 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>

Here is a link to a PDF that will explain it all -- or at least, quite a bit.

Great article, Bob. Thanks for the link. I can't wait for Des to finish the FSB book.

bobmannel · September 18, 2009 at 8:09 PM

>>I read in a speed shop catalog that you could replace a standard harmonic balancer with a HiPo one as long as you added the counter weight.<<

Bad information. It throws the engine out of balance by 2.2 ounce-inches (assuming it was in perfect balance to start with). Will it destroy an engine? No. Will it be noticed? Probably not.

If someone has changed the pistons, the engine should be rebalanced as an assembly. The machinist will take care of all balancing issues. That is why I mentioned that if you took all the parts to a machinist for balancing, you could use any of the components mentioned. For example, I used a very nice 221 V8 flywheel and a nice 260 damper on a 289 V8. The machinist had no trouble balancing it all.

But, if the engine is original and there are no changes made to the pistons or rings (still factory weights), and you are replacing just the flywheel/flex-plate, or just the damper, it should be the right one to maintain proper balance.

BoS_old · September 18, 2009 at 10:08 PM

Thanks Bob,

The 289 HiPo in my 67 Shelby is original as regards most parts

with the exception of pistons 11:1 pop ups, rings, flywheel

is an original from another 289 HiPo and clutch.

Never had it rebalanced.

My 65 Shelby original engine was balanced by the same shop

Walt Hane used for his race cars in Denver, CO. They balanced

everything including clutch. Then I found a NOS clutch and

they still had all the figures from earlier balancing and did the

new clutch for me and marked how to install it. Found out the

harmonic balancer had the wrong date code so I replaced it with

another with the correct date code without rebalancing it.

The engine still runs very smooth. Am I taking a big risk? Car is never being raced.

/Bo

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