Timing Chain & Gears

MBrown_old · April 5, 2007 at 10:33 AM

Is the timing set on these HiPo's different than your basic 289? Seems to be the case with what came off this engine. The crank gear has a split pin 180 out from the key-way slot and it fits into what I would call either a counter weight or maybe an oil slinger that mounts on the backside of the gear. There is an oil slinger in front of the gear also though so I'm not sure which it is? Also all the cam gears the parts house show have a collar on them where the one that came off the engine is just flat.

Where can I get a correct timing chain and gear set like what came off? As always, any help or leads will be greatly appreciated.

kgtman_old · April 5, 2007 at 11:05 AM

Mark,

I think this thread will help provide you with the answers. Hope it helps!

http://www.hipomustang.com/hpmx/topic.asp…e&TOPIC_ID=5305

Tom

MBrown_old · April 5, 2007 at 11:10 AM

Perfect!

Thanks Tom very much. I'll work on my search skills <img src=images/icon_smile_blush.gif border=0 align=middle>

Mark

SixT5HiPo · April 5, 2007 at 11:21 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>

Perfect!

... I'll work on my search skills <img src=images/icon_smile_blush.gif border=0 align=middle>

For what it's worth, many questions recently posted have been previously answered...use the ADVANCED SEARCH feature, and type in "timing chain". You'll find lots of posts including the one referenced above. As always, don't forget to check the "Archived Posts" box. (There are far more posts in the Archives than on the current pages.} Here's another one for your convenience:

<center>http://www.hipomustang.com/hpmx/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=5956</center>

MBrown_old · April 5, 2007 at 11:46 AM

Thanks for the Skoolin' <img src=images/icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

Just takes the fun out of meeting you guys if I just search all the info myself <img src=images/icon_smile_approve.gif border=0 align=middle>

Mark

SixT5HiPo · April 5, 2007 at 12:50 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>

...takes the fun out of meeting you guys if I just search all the info myself <img src=images/icon_smile_approve.gif border=0 align=middle>

Gotcha! <img src=images/icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

MBrown_old · April 10, 2007 at 5:49 PM

Recieved the timing chain & gears today from RockAuto as mentioned in the link in the post above. My question remains the same though on the cam gear. Should the cam gear have a "collar" on the inside towards the engine? The one that came off is flush on both sides. I assume it has been changed before? What should the end of the cam look like? Anyone have a picture? TIA

Mark

Edited by - MBrown on 04/10/2007 20:59:48

SixT5HiPo · April 10, 2007 at 8:48 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>

What should the end of the cam look like? Anyone have a picture? TIA

Here ya go...(Found these using ADVANCED SEARCH)

<center>[Blocked Image: http://www.hipomustang.com/cgi-bin/parts/chainsprockets012104.jpg]

<center>C3OZ-A EARLY STYLE</center>

[Blocked Image: http://www.hipomustang.com/cgi-bin/parts/sprocket021207.jpg]

[Blocked Image: http://www.hipomustang.com/cgi-bin/parts/Sprocket090304.jpg]

<center>C5OZ-B LATE STYLE</center>

</center>

MBrown_old · April 10, 2007 at 8:58 PM

Fantastic, thank you very much.

I have an early stlye cam gear and they sent me a late stlye replacement. (I did give them the part number though) Guess I'll be on the phone in the morning, or can I use the late style instead? Seems to clear the cover from a quick "test fit" but also fit rather loosely and I didn't try the bolt...

Edited by - MBrown on 04/10/2007 21:03:37

Edited by - MBrown on 04/10/2007 21:06:46

C6ZZKGT · April 11, 2007 at 7:30 AM Official Post

Mark,

You can use the later style cam sprocket by eliminating the spacer and changing the retainer plate to the later style along with the retainer bolts. Make sure that you save the old retainer, spacer and bolts as they are early Hipo specific parts.

-Fred-

MBrown_old · April 11, 2007 at 8:47 AM

Thank You Guys for all the help. I've re-ordered the early style t/c set and should be good to go.

Mark

MBrown_old · April 16, 2007 at 1:50 PM

Still having issues....

What was sent this time is a cam gear that looks just like the original but is almost half again thicker. They also sent a thicker crank gear which has no hole for the split pin for the hatchet looking counter weight. Are there 3 different style t/c sets? I've called RockAuto and they are trying to figure this out.....

Any more ideas as to wtf? Thanks.

RalphJr · April 16, 2007 at 8:17 PM

Mark,

Try this it might help......from my collection of HIPO notes.

TIMING GEARS – Talked to a Cloyes Engineer this week concerning HiPo timing gear stuff. He was nice enough to call me after I sent an email to the CS Website. Great guy – great support – BUY CLOYES.

S350 Top Cam Gear w/ C washer (early)

S406T Top Cam Gear w/integrated Hub Stop (later)

S351 HiPo ONLY Crank Gear

C358 Chain

GEAR HISTORY

CAM GEARS

S350 does not have the HUB STOP – you will need the cam “C” spacer and early style cam thrust plate (thicker with weird hour glass head counter sunk head bolts).

S372T replaced S350 – has HUB STOP molded in – this part was only produced briefly.

S406T replaced S372T – has HUB STOP molded in and uses 1 pc fuel eccentric (must use the later style thin thrust plate and grade 8 hex bolts).

S430T can be used with the later 2-piece fuel eccentric and a longer drive pin.

CRANK GEAR

HiPo 289 MUST use the S351 if the counterweight is retained – it accommodates the dowel pin for the counterweight. Cloyes still produces this part.

CHAIN

C358 is the proper chain number for all the above.

Cloyes did make a Double Roller set for a HiPo 289 in the late 60’s / early 70’s – PART NUMBER 9-2105 Speed Set

He also told me the Ford OEM for timing stuff in ’65 was Borg Warner – who actually subcontracted Cloyes to produce the parts. Nice – this is as close to NOS as you can get.

MBrown_old · April 17, 2007 at 8:19 AM

Ralph- Thank You so much.

I used the advanced search (yes it's true) trying to find out more about the C spacer. This engine seems to be missing this piece? Any pictures of one of those so I know what I'm looking for? I am positive this is the early style set up.

RalphJr · April 17, 2007 at 5:59 PM

I don't have a digital pic I can post, but if you have Bob Mannel's book see the following pages:

3-20 Pictures 3B9 a-f for the Early style thick thrust plate, C spacer, thin cam gear, and "clutch head" counter head bolts.

5-15 Pictures 5B5 a and c for later style thrust plate with hex head bolts and thicker cam gear.

The C spacer is exactly what it sounds like - there should be a round spacer inside the thrust plate with a notch cut out to clear the cam pin - a "C" washer about 1/4" thick. This spacer seats the cam gear to the cam - this spacer later was just added to the back of the cam gear as a shoulder - but it required the thinner cam thrust plate.

You can easily replace the earlier style stuff with the later items - I have - I found the thrust plate on an old block at the local machine shop - cost $5 - plus I've seen new ones on eBay. I've even seen the old ones and the C spacer for sale on eBay from time to time.

MBrown_old · April 18, 2007 at 12:58 PM

Just to mention;

You can order Cloyes gears and chains through your local NAPA Auto Parts Store. Costs just a bit more but at least they have a clue (hopfully) as to what your ordering. My dealings with RockAuto couldn't not have been more difficult. [Blocked Image: http://www.hipomustang.com/hpmx/images/icon_mi_5.gif]

round2K_old · April 18, 2007 at 1:27 PM

Ditto the recommendation for ordering through NAPA. If you buy from Rock Auto and have to return anything they will ask you to ship things to different places. I had to return three parts to them and they had me send them to different destinations for return credit and the shipping cost tripled.

MBrown_old · April 18, 2007 at 9:54 PM

That's no kidding, first set of wrong parts that's what they had me do. This last set of parts I told them they had to send call tags that I wasn't going to pay shipping again because of their mistakes.

Now it's the wait and see game if they credit my card correctly or not.....

66FastbackGT_old · April 19, 2007 at 9:51 PM

nice posts.

so, am I correct to order these parts for 66 hipo? thanks!

CLOYES S350 Hipo Cam Sprocket

CLOYES C358 Hipo Narrow Timing Chain

CLOYES S351 Hipo Narrow Chain Crank Sprocket w/Hatchet Pin Hole

CLOYES S406T Top Cam Gear w/integrated Hub Stop (later)

RalphJr · April 20, 2007 at 5:58 AM

For a '66 (L8 engine revison or later - this happned sometime in April-May '65) you would only need to order:

S406T Top Cam Gear w/integrated Hub Stop

S351 HiPo ONLY Crank Gear

C358 Chain

S350 is the EARLY style cam gear.

Don't want you to buy 2 cam gears - you really only need one!

Ralph

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