Corrected: Wanted 4HB Dated C5OF-E Distributor

rr64_old · July 17, 2008 at 7:10 PM

I am interested in finding and purchasing 1965 HP289 distributor marked FoMoCo, C5OF-12127-E, and dated 4H8. Mint unmolested (never chemically etched, media blasted, corroded, or modified) preferred. Thanks.

Dan

Edited by - rr64 on 07/18/2008 17:15:20

C6ZZKGT · July 17, 2008 at 9:01 PM Official Post

Dan, give me a call as I have a 4HB. There never was a number 8 at the end of the date code.

-Fred-

rr64_old · July 18, 2008 at 4:43 AM

It could be a sloppy "B" I guess. I am mostly going on what owners of late production Cobras with engines built on both sides, Shelby serial number wise*, of the one in my car report. I looked at one and it looked like an "8" the best I could see and I was sent a less than great image of another that looked like an "8".

Okay, anybody got a real nice "4HB" dated distributor for sale?

* Most HP289s in Cobras had engine blocks given sequential numbers by Ford. Ford numbers are six digits with two alpha characters followed by four numeric characters. Cars finished some time mid 1964 onward often got engines given serial numbers in a different style with a stamp set that matched the size and font used to stamp foot box serial tags at Shelby American, might have been the same stamps. Shelby numbers had five numeric characters. The lowest engine number I have seen a factory stamping of is 00004 and the highest 00060 so far. The engine I am collecting replacements of long lost parts for is 00026.

RalphJr · July 18, 2008 at 8:06 AM

Dan,

Fred is correct - all the documentation I have shows the disty datecode as year (number), month (letter), and week (letter).

Sounds like he has what you need for a '64, August, 2nd week date code - 4HB.

I finally found a 5BB disty for my April '65 K.

How about some photos when you get this rare HiPo motor finished?

C6ZZKGT · July 18, 2008 at 11:56 AM Official Post

Dan, I replied to your email letting you know that I have the distributor that you need.

-Fred-

rr64_old · July 18, 2008 at 3:49 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote> RalphJr

Dan, How about some photos when you get this rare HiPo motor finished?

If you can call them (engines from late Cobras) rare it is because they seem to be at odds with most Ford products in a few ways. Whereas most Cobras received production five bolt engine that were just Fairlane HP289 assemblies with Cobra unique ancillaries added some of the engines installed late the game are hard to categorize because of oddities.

First off, cars with four speed manual transmissions got five bolt bell housing design engines while the thirty or so cars that received C4 design automatic transmissions had six bolt bell housing engines. I think the 1965 service parts book from Shelby American lists four or five different engine assemblies as possible.

Second, the engines with Shelby serial numbers spanned this five and six bolt variation. A serial number is no clue.

Finding distributors in these Shelby serialized engines, using five bolt and six bolt blocks, with the same date code for such a long time span of cars seems very un-Fordlike unless a tremendous number of them were manufactured in that one week. Maybe Shelby received a fairly larger order of them at one time? Who knows?

The toughest parts to deal with are the cylinder heads. All the late car five bolt engines (six bolt engines use something different) people have inspected for me have C4OE-B cylinder heads cast on one of two dates with the majority being cast on a single day. It is bad enough to hunt a particular engineering casting number but to narrow it down to a single day at the foundry is super tough. So far these Shelby numbered blocks using cylinder heads from two days of casting have been found scattered over roughly the last hundred chassis by serial number in cars finished almost a year apart. Note cars were not finished in sequential order and engines were not used in order. Some late cars have very late Ford numbered engine blocks. Contrast that to some early Cobras that were similar to other Fords in that engine build dates and the dates on their shipping invoices to dealers could span just a few days to a few weeks.

How about engine blocks? I haven’t begun to figure this one out as cast dates on few five bolt ones checked to date are in mid May through mid June 1964. The oddest part here is that most do not have “Ford” engine assembly dates. Have they all been milled? Who actually assembled them, Ford or Shelby (theory = use up left over five bolts parts left in inventory)? (Anybody know what to measure where to determine if deck faces have been milled?)

How about iron intakes? Good question as so few cars retain the one they left the factory with.

If you know somebody that owns a Cobra that was finished after about June 1964 that still has any parts of its original engine intact, I would like to document whatever details they might provide. I will never know what the missing pieces to engine 00026 really were but I would like to get replacements that represent “what could have been”.

Thank you in advance for any help you might provide.

Dan

rr64_old · July 18, 2008 at 4:28 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>

Dan, I replied to your email letting you know that I have the distributor that you need.

-Fred-

Hi Fred,

That's great! I sent you a reply.

Dan

kar-nut_old · July 18, 2008 at 6:11 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Anybody know what to measure where to determine if deck faces have been milled? <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

The original/stock 289 deck height(cylinder head mounting surface to center line of crankshaft)is 8.206 +/-0.005

rr64_old · July 18, 2008 at 6:17 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Anybody know what to measure where to determine if deck faces have been milled? <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

The original/stock 289 deck height(cylinder head mounting surface to center line of crankshaft)is 8.206 +/-0.005

Kar-Nut

Thanks. When I get this thing apart and get it checked out I'll ask for that measurement also.

Dan

C6ZZKGT · July 18, 2008 at 9:56 PM Official Post

From what I have seen, Ford also stamped the engine assembly date on the right rear of oil pan rail to match the date on the pad in front of the head.

-Fred-

CharlesTurner · July 18, 2008 at 10:23 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>

From what I have seen, Ford also stamped the engine assembly date on the right rear of oil pan rail to match the date on the pad in front of the head.

-Fred-

Yes, seen that. Took note of it on the GT convertible engine. 5E18M on the front machined area near the head, 5E18B on the oil pan mounting surface. The block casting was 5E12.

rr64_old · July 19, 2008 at 4:32 AM

I obtained some new evidence last night from the former owner of a car that received engine "00010". That is pretty close to the "00026" engine I am hunting parts for.

That car still had its iron intake and had a tag bolted to that intake.

[Blocked Image: http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r187/rr64/2541-engine-tag.jpg]

That doesn't help answer why the block numbers change format and font. Did Ford just stop stamping 5-bolt HP289 blocks at the end? Did Shelby's crew start? The size and font of these "000XX" numbers matches that of characters Shelby's people stamped on Cobra warrantee plates (a.k.a. foot box tags). Isn't a date of "4-H" really late for a 5-bolt engine assembly?

BoS_old · July 19, 2008 at 7:47 AM

Dan,

I have a 6-bolt HiPo engine assembled in August

of 64. It came out of a Mustang.

/Bo

rr64_old · July 19, 2008 at 11:16 AM

We got the 1965 Cobra engine 0004 (a 5 bolt block) on an engine stand this morning, turned it over, and removed the oil pan. The pan rail is stamped 4H25B. When I get a chance I check engine 00026.

289cobra_old · July 19, 2008 at 11:50 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>

We got the 1965 Cobra engine 0004 (a 5 bolt block) on an engine stand this morning, turned it over, and removed the oil pan. The pan rail is stamped 4H25B. When I get a chance I check engine 00026.

Dan,

Finding the 4H25B on that engine counters the belief that Shelby assembled those engines right? They must have been unnumbered long blocks, perhaps service replacement long blocks?

rr64_old · July 19, 2008 at 7:28 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>

We got the 1965 Cobra engine 0004 (a 5 bolt block) on an engine stand this morning, turned it over, and removed the oil pan. The pan rail is stamped 4H25B. When I get a chance I check engine 00026.

Dan,

Finding the 4H25B on that engine counters the belief that Shelby assembled those engines right? They must have been unnumbered long blocks, perhaps service replacement long blocks?

I don't know, good question. I wonder what the "plan" was. Why do all the five bolt late Cobra engines checked to date have C4 cylinder heads cast during just two days in March? If the engines were finished in August why didn't they get the C5 version that was in production by then? I believe the block above was cast 4F16 (might be an 18), why did it take so long to get into a finished engine? What scenario played out such that engines and or cars finished months apart, including five bolt and six bolt blocks (one six bolt is stamped 4J15R), have distributors with the same date code? Why did Shelby continue using five bolt HP289s in manual transmission cars when the automatic transmission cars got six bolt ones in 1965 model cars? No easy answers I guess. I sure wish the guy(s) that owned CSX2551 in the past had saved all the stuff they removed. Just figuring out what “could have been” is taking a long time because so many other Cobras have been modified just as much.

How about adding to the puzzle? A mutual friend of ours sent information on this Ford numbered block engine. C4OE block with a casting date of 4F5, assembly date of 4H28, block number 6190. Okay, here is a Ford numbered block engine done three days after the 4H25 dated Shelby numbered one. Back to why would one block get a Ford number and another would not and both end up in complete engines?

Did Ford number blocks in sequential order? One of the engines in a late Cobra has Ford number 6469. I don’t know the dates on this engine unfortunately. Could it have been assembled days later still?

The more information I gather the farther I get from a solution.

289cobra_old · July 19, 2008 at 8:48 PM

I said long blocks but maybe they were short blocks. When Ford stamped the assembly date, would it be when a short block was assembled? That could explain early dated heads ending up on later assembled short blocks. ???

rr64_old · July 20, 2008 at 5:18 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>

I said long blocks but maybe they were short blocks. When Ford stamped the assembly date, would it be when a short block was assembled? That could explain early dated heads ending up on later assembled short blocks. ???

Go back to an earlier post above, the 4-H dated engine tag on the intake of engine 00010 makes it appear that engine came to Shelby as a complete engine.

rr64_old · July 20, 2008 at 5:32 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>

Dan, give me a call as I have a 4HB. There never was a number 8 at the end of the date code.

-Fred-

Fred,

How about in 1966? In the archives of this forums is an image of a "FoMoCo" casting dated 6A17. No picture is shown but another is claimed to be 6G15. I think the distributor I bought circa 1973 out of a 1966 Mustang is dated "6H10". I was originally going to use this "1966 dated" one in the Cobra but the desire to get a more appropriate date started this thread.

Dan

Edited by - rr64 on 07/20/2008 05:44:30

Edited by - rr64 on 07/20/2008 06:14:21

289cobra_old · July 20, 2008 at 6:21 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>

I said long blocks but maybe they were short blocks. When Ford stamped the assembly date, would it be when a short block was assembled? That could explain early dated heads ending up on later assembled short blocks. ???

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>

Go back to an earlier post above, the 4-H dated engine tag on the intake of engine 00010 makes it appear that engine came to Shelby as a complete engine.

Sorry, forgot about the tag. So the mystery continues.

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