Rarest of Mustangs

J_Speegle_old · January 11, 2009 at 4:13 PM

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The numbers I quoted are taken from "MUSTANG DOES IT" written by Ray Miller and published in 1978 by Evergreen Press, Oceanside, Ca., ISBN 0-0913056-09-X, Page 314 - 315. Quoted from footnotes at bottom of page 315 "Figures on these pages are from Ford Motor Company and the Shelby-American Automobile Club. ...............

Thanks John I though that had been your source -

billh_old · January 13, 2009 at 12:33 PM

From 1965 to 1967, Ford produced approximately 1.8 million Mustangs. Of these, approximately 13,000 were HiPo’s. That’s a lot of cars, but really only .75% of the total number of Mustangs made. The later model Boss 429’s were 1359 built. Shelby’s production numbers were 562 1965’s. which included R-Models, and prototypes. In 1966 there were 2380 cars produced. I don’t have the number for the 1967’s.

You can make any argument for which car series is the rarest, I have had “Discussions” about each;

Some, including me, consider the 1965 Shelby’s as the gold standard as these were among the fewest produced and the most heavily modified cars with the most extensive racing heritage. (They ARE Mustangs, delivered as running cars by Ford and finished by Shelby. They are titled as GT-350 Mustangs). The 1966's and 1967's were no where near as heavily modified as the 65's.

Some consider the 1971 Boss 351 Mustang as the most unique as they were the only Mustang models produced for one year only. (no matter what you hear, there were NO 1972 Boss 351’s).

Some consider the Boss 429’s as the Gold Standard as these cars, although offered in two model years, were the fewest produced and required extensive modification. They were, however a huge disappointment in the horespower department.

If not for the fact that Ford produced 13,000 HiPo Mustangs there would not be anywhere near the interest that there is today. Example; I owned a car that was so unique but produced in such few numbers that they are pretty much all but forgotten today. It was a 1967 410 H.P. 427 Fairlane 500 XL. Ford built 7 of these cars.

All Performance Mustangs are Unique, take your pick.

s2ms · January 13, 2009 at 3:34 PM

There are probably lots of subsets within these rare cars that could be included in the discussion. The first 252 66 GT350's, the so-called carry over cars, are a good example. You could argue the ones that came with a rear package tray (about 80 or so) are more heavily modified than a 65 GT350 since they have the 65 mods plus the quarter windows and brake cooling scoops.

cobraboy · January 13, 2009 at 3:38 PM

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According to accepted figures there were 77,079 produced in 1965. Only 5,776 fastbacks had the "pony" interior and are included in this number. This also includes the 562 fastbacks which became 65 Shelbys.

Murf sorry to be dumb, are you saying there were 77,079 K Code fast backs produced in 1965?

C6ZZKGT · January 13, 2009 at 4:12 PM Official Post

Mark, Murf was referring to the total 1965 fastback production and not just K codes.

-Fred-

billh_old · January 13, 2009 at 5:28 PM

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There are probably lots of subsets within these rare cars that could be included in the discussion. The first 252 66 GT350's, the so-called carry over cars, are a good example. You could argue the ones that came with a rear package tray (about 80 or so) are more heavily modified than a 65 GT350 since they have the 65 mods plus the quarter windows and brake cooling scoops.

That is absolutely correct and addresses one of my theories that the 65 Shelby was so close to being a street legal race car that sales suffered due to the lack of options and the severity of the ride and the noise. I was told that a surprising number of 65 Shelby's were re-sold within 90 days of original purchase because they were so noisy and, for a woman, hard to drive.

A group of us recently took a little trip from Seattle to Portland to look over SFM5005, which is one of the prototype cars. Looking at this unmolested very early 65 Shelby was a real eye opener for us, a number of items that went on the production cars was either left off of this car, or installed entirely differently.

Edited by - billh on 01/13/2009 17:29:46

cobraboy · January 14, 2009 at 11:39 AM

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Does anyone have a rough idea of how many 1965 fastbacks were produced ?

Sorry chaps I should have asked... Does anyone know roughly how many K Code fastbacks were produced in 1965 ?. I also apologise for not chatting as UK / US times make this difficult. All the best everyone

Mark
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RalphJr · January 14, 2009 at 12:44 PM

DISCLAIMER - this is just based upon the data in the thread - no facts or documents exist that can prove difinitively how many HiPos were produced in '65 or '66. All FORD records for these years were destroyed.

With 77,079 total 2+2 cars built in 1965

And assuming 2% had HiPos - might be a little low, but it is above the total 0.75% HiPo number for '64-'67. This would give you a total of 1542 HiPo 2+2 cars (including GT350s) in '65.

Take away the 562 GT350s and this leaves you with 980 2+2 cars with HiPo engines.

If some of the carry over '66 GT350s were actually '65 serial numbers then the number is even lower. SAAC could confirm this - I have no idea if these cars were actually left over '65 cars or new '66 cars. Seem to remember hearing or reading that some were actually incomplete '65s upgraded to '66 Mustang specs - but I could be wrong.

With 470 '65 "09" 2+2s in the registry so far - I would GUESS that between a third to a half of the cars survive today in some form - so the numbers are close.

At half you would have 940 cars total (close to my 2% number) - at a third there would have been about 1410 cars total.

Taking the average of this - and making the big assumtion that my original 2% estimate is close or a little low - you would have started with about 1200 HiPo 2+2s sold as Mustangs in 1965 - this does not include the GT350s.

There you go - best "GUESSTIMENT" I can do on the rarity of a '65 2+2 K code.

Edited by - RalphJr on 01/14/2009 12:47:02

cobraboy · January 14, 2009 at 2:31 PM

Ralph

That is very informative, Thanks for putting that together, it is such a shame Ford binned everything prior to 1967, on the other hand a little bit of mystique never hurt anything, we can say '65 K FB's are as rare as rocking horse s**t, and someone else can say 'pah', there's loads of 'em. Ya cant do that with your daily driver!

round2K_old · January 14, 2009 at 4:27 PM

I'd still like to know how many 65-66 Shelby's are in the SAAC registry compared to the number of K codes in the HiPo registry.

Shelby6t5 · January 14, 2009 at 6:43 PM

Yes, 66 GT 350's (the first batch, "Carry-overs") have 65 Ford VIN's

Until we see a new Registy in about 2 years (from what I am told)we will not know the current # of 65 & 66 Shelby's still on the road.

IMHO, the 4 66 GT 350 Converts and the 37 R models are at the top, or as close to the top of a very nice heap of rare K's.

Mike

65 # 17

J_Speegle_old · January 14, 2009 at 11:06 PM

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I'd still like to know how many 65-66 Shelby's are in the SAAC registry compared to the number of K codes in the HiPo registry.

Dave all the 65-66's are in the Registry - but we can not be certain which ones are still with us. Now you can go through the list and see which ones SAAC has noted the "current" (as of over ten years ago) or an older owner (maybe sometime in the 80's) but there are more that have never contacted and sent info into SAAC over the years. I know a few that have no interest in others knowing they have one.

round2K_old · January 15, 2009 at 12:24 AM

Jeff the issue of confidentiality is not unique to the Shelby's as there are many people that don't want others know the whereabouts of their cars. It's reasonable to assume the HiPo registry doesn't have every car it could for the same reason. I've encouraged at least 6 K code owners to add their cars to the registry and they didn't want to. I was just asking the question in general terms, not trying to tie the inquiry up in knots with precise information.

RalphJr · January 15, 2009 at 9:01 AM

I agree - the '66 convert GT350s (not counting the "continuation" cars o'Shel built in the 80's) are rare indeed. I'm lucky enough to have seen one up close - the green one that resides in Oklahoma - spoke to the owner many times at the Mid-America Shelby meet.

The R code Shelby GT350's are right up there - especially considering the race heritage and loss that happened among those cars. BUT many of those cars now wear massive amounts of new sheet metal I'm sure.

I would also throw out Henry Ford's HiPo Coupe as a one of one rarity - all the special treatment the car received from Ford styling, being a very early car, and all the unique options it received make it very special - on top of the man who drove it!

J_Speegle_old · January 15, 2009 at 10:59 PM

Since we're talking just K codes you would want to include (if your counting Shelbys in the mix)

1- the one 1966 GT350S built

2- the one 1966 GT350 Zagato (the only K code I recall that was sent directly to Europe and redesigned by a famous car designer)

3- the 65 Shelby Drag cars (4 of them)

4- the 66 Trans Am coupes (20 of them)

5- the 67 Trans AM coupes (26 of them) - (Have ridden in on of the 66's and one of the 67's both loud and fun )

Of course you could add the 66 GT350 with the non-black interiors (there were one of each - blue and tan interior cars built), as well as another handful of "one of'S" that were built.

All rarer than the R Models

Other low numbers would include the 67 K codes that were built and sent to Europe that competed in the Rallys and the 67 K code Mustangs equipped with Thermactors. Don't think there were many built

Rarest of Mustangs

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