vin number on block

anothermustangplease_old · December 11, 2006 at 12:16 PM

I bought 2 K-code engines last year after much research. There seem to be real HiPo engines out there without VINs, but these were replacement blocks not sold in a car. I would only buy one with a real VIN in the right place, since there are a lot of fakes out there. If yours doesn't have a VIN, it doesn't mean it's not a real HiPo motor, it was probably just replaced after the original blew.

garymcgowan_old · December 11, 2006 at 5:01 PM

I would like to share what I remember from back in day when the Mustang HIPO was new. It was common knowledge that Ford did stamp the engine and transmission. However, I or none of the people I knew who owned a HIPO Mustang verified it at that time.

I never heard that Ford did the stamping for Warranty purposes. All I ever heard was it was to deter theft and help in the recovery of a stolen engine/transmission. In fact, I seem to remember it was common knowledge that to posess an engine with an altered number was against the law. Same if it was in your car and it didn't match the VIN of the vehicle and you didn't have a Bill of Sale. Now, please understand these facts were passed around at the local car hops we used to frequent so it is unknown if they are factual or not, but we sure as heck beleived them to be true.

If it was for warranty purposes why didn't the dealer stamp the replacement engine as it would have had some kind of warranty on it?

Does anyone know when the engine and transmission was stamped? Was it just before they were lowered in the car on the assembly line? Were the body, transmission and engine stamped by the same person using the same stamps? If so, I would bet that almost all would have been stamped. Has anyone ever had a VIN number misssing from any of the hidden areas of the body?

Has anyone ever spoke with an assembly line employee that did the stamping? That would be very useful to shed light on this subject.

Well, I have rambled long enough. I just wish we could get a definite answer to this puzzle.

Thanks,

Gary

J_Speegle_old · December 12, 2006 at 1:35 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>If it was for warranty purposes why didn't the dealer stamp the replacement engine as it would have had some kind of warranty on it?

Does anyone know when the engine and transmission was stamped? If so, I would bet that almost all would have been stamped. Has anyone ever had a VIN number misssing from any of the hidden areas of the body?

The main purpose (my understanding) was to deter theft. That is why car makers first started stamping only high performance engines and 4 speed transmissions. Father was an auto thief detective for may years.

Its my understanding that the a worker would stamp the engine and trans ( if required) at the engine and trans substation) before the subassembly was sent to the line to meet with the car. Different stamps and person than the ones doing the body.

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Has anyone ever had a VIN number missing from any of the hidden areas of the body? <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Very rare but I do have a 69 San Jose built car that has no stamps on in the "hidden" areas and it retains all the original panels. Makes for problems of course

DJames_old · December 12, 2006 at 9:31 AM

Theft was a big part of why they stamped these motors.They had a real short warranty period. Some folks weren't above snatching the motor out, putting a blown up 'C' code motor in the car and getting themselves a spare on Ford's dime.Or just to have something to sell.Ford did everything that they could to make these motors bullet proof.If a person came back a few weeks after buying the car wanting a new motor, Ford wanted a way to know that the motor they were replacing was the same motor that they had put in the car.That happened to a bunch of Hertz cars.People would rent them, swap out the motor and then return it.That's why you spend a couple of hours signing off on the presence of every little badge and part on the new ones when you rent one. Hertz figured out what people were doing to them in the 60s.

garymcgowan_old · December 12, 2006 at 10:57 AM

DJames.... I agree with you on the Hertz situation, I never really thought about that. However, that was not a problem for Ford, a big one for Hertz, depending on how often it happened.

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>

If a person came back a few weeks after buying the car wanting a new motor, Ford wanted a way to know that the motor they were replacing was the same motor that they had put in the car.

On the surface this sounds logical but then there is the question of why Ford did not require the replaced engine to be stamped also. Something they could require a dealer to accomplish if the engine plant didn't do it before shipping. Besides, I think any Ford Tech of the time could, with very little effort tell if the engine being replaced was a HiPo or not.

Gary

Joe6pack_old · December 12, 2006 at 12:31 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>

Its my understanding that the a worker would stamp the engine and trans ( if required) at the engine and trans substation) before the subassembly was sent to the line to meet with the car. Different stamps and person than the ones doing the body.

This is good to know. My '66 Dearborn K has matching VINs everywhere except the 4th digit on the engine and transmission are for a convertible, but the car is a fastback. This seems to indicate that the drivetrain was originally slated for a convertible and at some point in production it was switched to a fastback. Either that, or the engine stamper maded a mistake. I hope this doesn't cause me problems in the future as it is a very original K-code GT.

garymcgowan_old · December 12, 2006 at 1:02 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Very rare but I do have a 69 San Jose built car that has no stamps on in the "hidden" areas and it retains all the original panels. Makes for problems of course

I hope you don't have problems with this. If you have documentation or other means to show this was an obvious mistake at the plant I would have the parts stamped. It's not like you are trying to defraud anyone.... you are just trying to right a wrong.

Gary

b9folk_old · December 12, 2006 at 1:14 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>

Some folks weren't above snatching the motor out, putting a blown up 'C' code motor in the car and getting themselves a spare on Ford's dime.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

I wonder if that's what happened to my car. It ended up with a C code engine, except it wasn't blown up. Whoever did it left the rare '65 K motor mounts, early dual exhaust hangers, and hipo fan, as well as the VIN stamped tranny. But there is a '65 correct single exhaust hanger with the same dealer undercoating as the rest of it. Hmmm... If only these kars could talk.

MTS_old · December 12, 2006 at 2:24 PM

Joe6pack: I think Ford put a guy in charge stamping VIN's that they might have been affraid to have work on anything else. My car's block has an extra digit with an X stamped over it 5 digits from the right. You can somewhat see it on the photo link:

http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2179403200080259586BsHFML

garymcgowan_old · December 12, 2006 at 2:45 PM

MTS... Can you measure the size of your letters and numbers? I can very faintly see what appears to be a K on mine but not sure. It appears to be 3/16 of an inch high. I hope to get the engine pulled this weekend and I hope to find it then.

Gary

MTS_old · December 12, 2006 at 3:00 PM

Gary:

3/16 is right.

garymcgowan_old · December 12, 2006 at 3:22 PM

MTS,

Thanks. I think I'm on the right track. I will pull the engine this weekend and pressure clean it and look at it in good sun light. I think it is there.

Gary

round2K_old · December 12, 2006 at 6:38 PM

I don't know if this helps further the conversation, but I was curious about the VIN stamps on my trans and engine so I took some photos when I had them disassembled for overhaul. From everything I could determine both numbers were made with the same stamp set. (Yes, that's a roller chain.)I have found all three VIN stamps on my fenders and documented them from above and below. The stamps used on the fenders appear to be different from the engine/trans stamps, though not significantly. They also have the star at the beginning and end of each of the sheet metal VINs.

[Blocked Image: http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/732/vinnumbersvh2.jpg]

Edited by - round2K on 12/12/2006 18:49:33

garymcgowan_old · December 12, 2006 at 7:46 PM

I read this on David Kee's site. "Some of the early K code Mustang Toploaders were stamped on the bottom center of the maincase with the complete VIN"

Does anyone have one marked at this location?

Gary

MTS_old · December 12, 2006 at 7:49 PM

Wow! Ford did a heck-of-a better job with VIN stamps on San Jose built Kars than Dearborn ones. Even the stamp on my gearbox looks like the stamp on my engine block, with the characters cocked-off at an angle and not evenly spaced.

That's really good documentation round2k.

J_Speegle_old · December 12, 2006 at 10:23 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>

I read this on David Kee's site. "Some of the early K code Mustang Toploaders were stamped on the bottom center of the maincase with the complete VIN"

Does anyone have one marked at this location?

Earliest Ford 4 speed I have seen stamped was a 64 which matches what is written in auto thief books of the period. The full VIN seems to have been stamped until sometime in 68 then the shorten version (year,plant,sequential number) after that.

Some of the earlier trans (and later ones) have been seen with the VIN stamped on the mating flange at the front while (at least SJ had 66-67 (Can't recall 65 right this moment) VINS on the little trans tab as shown in the picture above.

round2K_old · December 12, 2006 at 11:35 PM

I have owned two early 65 San Jose K cars and both were stamped in this fashion.

Edited by - round2K on 12/12/2006 23:36:50

CharlesTurner · December 13, 2006 at 10:28 AM

The 65 San Jose K convertible I am restoring has the same VIN stamps on the engine and trans as pictured, VIN ending in 184819.

b9folk_old · December 13, 2006 at 12:17 PM

My early San Jose trans is same as in above photo. Too bad Ford didn't have a nice flat flange on the engine blocks to stamp on, because the trans stamps are easy to see. These days they'd probably have a bar-coded sticker that would peel off in a short amount of time.

RalphJr · December 13, 2006 at 4:51 PM

My April '65 block is stamped as expected and my tranny is stamped as described on David Kee's website - bottom of main case right next to the drain plug.

Did you modifiy a roller chain set up to fit with the counter weight or did you take the counter weight off the crank? I've heard of guys milling down the back of the lower gear and drilling the dowel pin hole in a standard 289 dual roller set up.

I spoke to a CS rep from Cloyes a while back - he confirmed that they did make a dual roller setup for the HiPo 289 with the correct style lower gear to use the counter weight in the '70s - but it is no longer available. Seems this is a rare find now as they didn't make very many to start with.<img src=images/icon_smile_sad.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=images/icon_smile_sad.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=images/icon_smile_sad.gif border=0 align=middle>

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