Drive Shaft Markings and Engine Rebuild

jr.S_old · June 25, 2009 at 11:08 PM

Hello all,

Quickly but thoroughly progressing my way through the restoration of San Jose #1 (on top of working 50 hrs a week at my normal job). Should be finished in 6-8 weeks if all goes as planned. Here are some random shots of the factory drive shaft markings, the engine rebuild, etc. The pics were taken within the last week or so, and the dates are obviously incorrect (sorry) [Blocked Image: http://i43.tinypic.com/2rfeosj.jpg]

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The noticeably shorter HiPo drive shaft on the left with some pink markings (non-HiPo shaft on right)

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Interior Shot from the back before the glass was installed.

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Since these pictures were taken, all the glass is in the car including the door glass, and the interior is near completion except for seat covers, bezels, and the glove box. After that will be the install of the Powerhouse(woohoo!), exhaust, and wheels and tires. Along with those are some little odds and ends that are not pressing to be completed right now (bumpers, headlights, etc). I will be posting more pictures soon, maybe some full body and interior shots. Can't wait to get in on the road!!

C6ZZKGT · June 26, 2009 at 1:06 AM Official Post

Looking very good!!

-Fred-

6hypo5conv_old · June 26, 2009 at 8:18 AM

Just out of curiosity where did you get your carpet? it looks to fit pretty well....was there much fitting and/or trimming needed?

CharlesTurner · June 26, 2009 at 9:00 AM

That's the early '65 style carpet with serge edges, only have to trim front and back. I have one of these, but would have to check the box to be sure that it was ACC.

jr.S_old · June 26, 2009 at 10:38 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote> That's the early '65 style carpet with serge edges, only have to trim front and back. I have one of these, but would have to check the box to be sure that it was ACC. <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Actually it's 64 1/2 coupe carpet that I got from NPD and it fits very well. And thanks for the compliments guys!

CharlesTurner · June 26, 2009 at 12:43 PM

The serge edge carpet was used as late as February '65. It really shouldn't be considered "64.5" carpet.

jr.S_old · June 26, 2009 at 3:18 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote> The serge edge carpet was used as late as February '65. It really shouldn't be considered "64.5" carpet. <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

With due respect, Charles, you may want to call Russell and the guys at national parts depot and tell them that they are incorrect. When i called NPD to get carpet that didn't go up the rockers (where the rockers were covered with vinyl) with no toe pad and serged edge, he immediately said "64 1/2, right?" And i replied, "yes, thats right, but it's for a fastback". Russell then stated that "they didn't make 64 1/2 fastback carpet, only coupe and convertible". And i said "yes, i know, send me the carpet for a coupe." So what he sent me and what I ordered was 64 1/2 coupe carpet. Neither I nor Russell from NPD mentioned anything about 65 carpet, because that would have been the wrong carpet. We both know '65 has the toe pad and the carpet goes up the rocker, 64.5 does not. If it "really shouldn't be considered 64.5 carpet", then every Mustang parts supplier, book, and website is wrong. Here is a picture of the NPD magazine page that i was referring to when i ordered the carpet.

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CharlesTurner · June 26, 2009 at 5:07 PM

Just because you see something in a catalog does not make it right. Also, it is not my job to police the content of their catalogs and knowledge level of whoever answers the phone. This Russell person clearly has limited knowledge of carpet in 64.5-65 Mustangs. NPD usually is very good with their catalogs, but they got this one mixed up. I'm sure Scott will fix it next go around.

Not every vendor has this wrong in their catalog either, you should have done some more checking before making blanket statements. Virginia Mustang lists the serge edge carpet as correct for 64.5 - early 65, they have it for coupes, convertibles and fastbacks. The only difference in the convertible one is simply the absence of the toe pad. You could have ordered the correct carpet for your fastback from VA Mustang as I did for my January '65 K fastback. It does not come with a toe pad, as it shouldn't. All the original serge edge carpets I have seen had no toe pad.

I have seen the serge edge/no toe pad carpet used in Mustangs as far in '65 production as late January '65. A full 5 months of production use would hardly make this style carpet exclusively "64.5" carpet.

jr.S_old · June 27, 2009 at 7:54 AM

You are right Charles, just because you see something in a magazine, doesn't mean it's right. But who wrote the rules? This whole political scheme of "judging" cars is only performed by what people have seen in the past and what they think they know. While you and some of the other "naturalists" refer to the cars and parts as early 65, EVERYBODY knows what is meant when you refer to a car or a part as a 64.5. So for instance, if the guy who asked the question about the carpet wanted to purchase exactly what i installed in my car, and he didn't know there was a difference or even if there was a such thing as a 64.5, and i told him early 65, he might would have looked at a catolog somewhere and only seen 64.5 or 65 and purchased the wrong thing. So that's why i was "politically incorrect" when i said 64.5, because thats what he asked, thats what i bought and thats what i got. Now on to the next subject.

jr.S_old · June 27, 2009 at 8:03 AM

6hypo5conv asked Me where i got the carpet, and You responed immediately like you know everything about what i have done. I bought the carpet, not you, and it's up to me to answer him. The next time someone askes Me about my car, i would suggest that you let me answer. You, sir, in no way have any reason to answer other peoples' questions unless it's a general question or one directed to you. Your response to his question sounded more of an advertisement to try and sell something, rather than answer the mans question in which you had no right to answer in the first place. On to the next topic. In past conversations, emails, and comments you have made, it appears that you are concerned that i'm not restoring the car back to original. I dunno maybe i'm just imagining things. With much respect to the concours group of enthusiasts, including yourself, I am not a concours guy nor do i ever plan to be. I'm a modified, driver, burn the wheels off, blow it up and buy some more kind of guy and do things my own way. I build drivers, not gliders, (aka trailer queens) so i can enjoy what i've done, not worrying about trophies and awards, but the smiles on peoples faces and the compliments i receive. I enjoy being different, not just owning a regular car in the crowd that looks exactly like someone elses. To each his own. There are no rules stating that i have to restore a car in any so-called correct manner, which many of your remarks have a tendency of saying such. This ain't my first rodeo Charles and i have many, many ponies under my belt including many that have been in magazine articles, centerfolds, advertisements and websites. In no way am I impressionated nor am i concerned about how you feel, being that you will never be judging my car anyway. I bought and own the FIRST '65 ordered, the FIRST '65 Fasback built, and the FIRST '65 K code car from San Jose. There are things about this car that are different from what you know or what you think you know, and it is what it is, regardless of you stating that i should, and i quote "Have serious reservations about using the term "first" in just about any context regarding the car". (2/5/09). I'm sorry Charles, but it is what it is. So lets sum this up. The man asked about the carpet and i responded. The NPD book says 64 1/2 and thats what i told him. I know what was on the car when i got it, i know what i've bought and done to the car, and in no way should you have any reason or ambition to answer questions directed to me about my car, nor should you answer questions directed to others about their cars, unless they are unsure. Unlike some people, I am not intimidated by your knowledge of mustangs and not afraid to respond to your comments. With all due respect, this is in no way or form meant to be disrespectful to your judge status, or in any way demeaning, but just simply stating what others are afraid to say. There are factory induced things about my car that are different from what are in some books and from what you may know, thats because i truly indeed have San Jose's First '65 mustang. Like i stated earlier, "it is what it is".

CharlesTurner · June 27, 2009 at 12:01 PM

I've had a few conversations with Rick about carpet and knew that the style of carpet in your car was the serge edge, or at least should have been. This meant it didn't apply to his situation. Didn't realize that I was insulting you by answering the question.

Regarding the carpet, I simply stated the facts about the early style. As for judging rules, it is also in the MCA rulebook. The reason it is stated as 64.5-early 65 is to allow some flexibility in the time period. While I have observed the serge carpet used as late as end of January '65, there could be more examples out there with later dates. Additionally, even if Ford published a crossover date, that could more or less just be an "intended" date in production that could have seen a little run over/under of the use of the product. Also, when dealing with multiple colors of carpet, it stands to reason that less popular colors would take longer to use up the supply.

Nobody here has said anything derogatory about how you are restoring the car, including myself. I bit my tongue when I saw the red engine bay, but that is your choice and I can respect that. You asked me what route you should take when you bought the car and I gave you my opinion. I remember spending quite a bit of time corresponding with you. It seemed like you were more concerned with the value of the car, depending on whether or not it was modified or concours. Even though I did not care for that attitude regarding this particular car, I still was cordial and gave my advice.

Not everyone prefers a concours-restored car and there is nothing wrong with that. I always say there is room in the hobby for everyone. The only thing I ever ask of anyone is to respect how I enjoy the hobby and I will respect your way. Do not belittle trailered/concours show cars, the people that own them enjoy them just as much as you enjoy your car.

RPM_old · June 27, 2009 at 8:02 PM

jr.s,which of the NPD stores did you get that carpet as it looks like it fits well and I need some for my 64.5 coupe?...Thanks

jr.S_old · June 28, 2009 at 3:37 PM

I ordered the carpet from the NPD in Charlotte, NC. I always receive prompt and knowledgeable service from those guys and recommend them to everybody. Here's their number..(800)368-6451

RPM_old · June 28, 2009 at 4:46 PM

I appreciate the info and applaud your effort on your car!

J_Speegle_old · June 28, 2009 at 11:12 PM

Wow!!!! plenty of drama again

And no popcorn to go with it

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>

............ I bought and own the FIRST '65 ordered, the FIRST '65 Fasback built, and the FIRST ................. <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

What make it the FIRST fastback built???

How did you determine that "fact"????

Since we accept (well most of us) that the cars were not built in sequential order (by VIN)

Thanks for posting the pictures and making them available to everyone - I'm sure its an interesting car though I'm sure there are many of us that are saddened about your choice to modify the car. But that that stated it is your car.

But from reading this post (have not seen the others) I did not understand that you were not restoring it - sorry. Since its posted in the "Restoration" section of this site.

BTW what color are you painting in? Something from the period or a more modern color? Looks like your staying - somewhat with the original look in the interior - What are you going to use for front seats?

Look forward to more discoveries and pictures of your findings

Oh almost forgot (came back and added this )

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>and in no way should you have any reason or ambition to answer questions directed to me about my car, nor should you answer questions directed to others about their cars, unless they are unsure. .........<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

I think its called HELPING (what others are thinking) Not sure when this became YOUR site. Guess neither of us get to make the rules.

Sorry I had to say (after rereading the posts) what others are afraid to say.

Edited by - J_Speegle on 06/28/2009 23:21:50

jr.S_old · June 29, 2009 at 9:13 AM

Let me changed my statement to something a little more opinionated. Would it be more conceivable to say it's the "first known fastback" from San Jose? And the "first known K code" from San Jose? I'm 100% positive its the First car ordered for '65 from San Jose. I can easily say that it is the first, just as easy as anyone can tell me it's not. If it was someone else's car, wouldn't they want to believe it was? I know through my private conversations and emails with Jim Smart how he feels and what he thinks about the car. I'm not sure if you have seen the articles i posted a while back, but i will post them again. If i should believe and take thoughts and opinions from anyone, Jim Smart would be the go-to guy (beings that he wrote the book, literally). Wouldn't you agree??

http://blogs.mustangmonthly.com/6468665/ford-n…ound/index.html

http://blogs.mustangmonthly.com/6471710/ford-n…till/index.html

http://blogs.mustangmonthly.com/6547464/ford-n…date/index.html

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>But from reading this post (have not seen the others) I did not understand that you were not restoring it - sorry. Since its posted in the "Restoration" section of this site.

BTW what color are you painting in? Something from the period or a more modern color? Looks like your staying - somewhat with the original look in the interior - What are you going to use for front seats?<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

I'm not sure what you mean by the first portion of your quote above, about me restoring it. If this answers your question, i am restoring the car. Under the "restoration" section it says "Give or seek advice concerning a restoration, sources of parts...etc" I had some questioning from others on the factory paint daubs and markings on the drive shaft and numbers on the block etc. Thats why i posted the pics, for those who questioned about them. As for the second part of the quote, the car is mostly going to be original except for the hood, the wheels and exhaust, and engine compartment (sorry Charles <img src=images/icon_smile.gif border=0 align=middle>). The paint color is back the original Rangoon Red, the interior is back to its original Red, and the seats are the original bucket seats that came in the car. This car was also fitted with a console and an 8K rally pack. My plans for this one are just like the other cars that i've restored. I'm gonna drive it and take it to some shows as usual, i plan to Drag Race the car and burn a little rubber (it wouldn't be called a HiPo for nothing <img src=images/icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>). Then i plan to sell the car and move on to the next project. The little bit of non-originality on the car is bolt on or repaintable stuff, and i've already saved the next owner about 90% of the trouble. The other 10%, whether they wanna leave it modded or change it back original, is up to them.

Edited by - jr.S on 06/29/2009 09:14:40

289kford · June 29, 2009 at 9:42 AM

"i plan to Drag Race the car and burn a little rubber (it wouldn't be called a HiPo for nothing )."

Be sure to post some results. What gear are you going to run, bone stock motor, etc.?

CharlesTurner · June 29, 2009 at 12:03 PM

I e-mailed Scott Halseth at NPD, he said they didn't get "fastback" on the carpet list in time for the '09 catalog, but will be in the next printing and customers can order it if requested. So, J.R., if you want the correct serge edge carpet for your fastback, you should be able to get it from NPD. They could probably take the coupe rear section in return. If "Russell", at NPD is unsure of this, tell him to call the Michigan store and speak to Scott (product manager for NPD.)

Regarding "restoration" of the car, knowing Jeff, it's a terminology thing. Since you're modifying the car, it really isn't a "restoration" as the definition of the word is defined. "Restoration", means returning to original state/condition, which you are not completely doing.

It's good that you have documented the car to a certain degree, that might help if whoever buys the car is interested in taking it back original. I'm sure folks here appreciate the drive shaft pics and things of that nature.

As we discussed on the phone and in e-mails, the only claim you can make regarding the VIN is that it is the first '65 San Jose car assigned a VIN. You have no documentation to prove when it was actually built or even if there were other fastbacks or K codes built before yours. I would strongly caution you against using the term "first", unless describing the car as the first unit number. Nonetheless, being the first unit number is significant, but please keep things honest. I'm sure Jim Smart would agree with this.

round2K_old · June 29, 2009 at 6:05 PM

Thanks for posting the driveshaft information as it is particularly helpful and an area where we need more info from unrestored cars.

A general observation on the overall tone of this thread: it is counterproductive for all of us when folks start staking out territory in posts. People will become less inclined to participate and share and we all lose out when that happens.

jr.S_old · June 29, 2009 at 7:34 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Be sure to post some results. What gear are you going to run, bone stock motor, etc.?<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Running 3:89 peg leg rear, engine is stock with standard size stainless steel valves, forged flat top pistons .30 over rather than cast, with stock crank and cam.

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote> A general observation on the overall tone of this thread: it is counterproductive for all of us when folks start staking out territory in posts. People will become less inclined to participate and share and we all lose out when that happens.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

You are absolutely correct. Some things said were out of line, but the constant negativity from others creates tension about the whole subject. I post pictures to share with people what i've found on this San Jose car in hopes that someone would find the information useful. I have thousands of pictures of this car including markings found upon disassembly, pictures of reassembly and such. One of the reasons i don't post more than i do is because of the negativity and dislike that i have recieved since first joining this site.

Participate now!