Carter fuel pump

1st Official Post

    I Looking for an early Carter CARburATOR style fuel pump for a 64.5 very early 65. Don't remember the model number but it is the screw together style that can be rebuilt. Non HP ok. Button perfered. Rebuildable ok but no junk please. Please send me an email.

    FYI - the early screw together type pumps did NOT have the button.


    I have one for my '65 resto - was on the car when purchased in '79 - lucky for me I kept it. Carter number on mine is 3908S - it does have an extra arm spring, but not the button. The button began with the crimp style pumps.


    Check eBay - they pop up once in a while - typically NOT CHEAP even used.

    5-bolt 289 HiPos are 64 engines and used the screw-together fuel pump. The 289 HiPo and standard 289 used the same pump and it had but one spring. It was stamped 3734S.


    6-bolt 289 HiPos used the crimped fuel pump. A unique lever was installed that had a dimple in it so a second spring could be installed in addition to the one under the crimped cap. The stamped number for 1965 was 3939S. Standard fuel pumps with just the one spring under the crimped cap carried the number 3911S for 1965.

    Thanks Bob for correcting me. I got the number from an article by

    Allen Cross in Mustang Monthly many years ago. Then the question

    is: What engine is 3908 used for?

    /Bo

    The MPC only list a 3909 (352/390), 3910 (390), 3911 (289) and 3939 (289 HiPo). I am not convinced that Ford listed all the numbers. Also, make sure it is not a big block fuel pump. The levers are very similar, but not the same.

    3908 is a FE big block fuel pump, used on 63-68 Ford trucks with 292HD, 330, 361, 391. These are all heavy duty applications, this pump would definitely have a different arm in it than a small block 289. If you install this pump in a 289 the pump will under stroke and not pump near as much fuel as needed.


    Edited by - 429scott on 02/16/2008 22:01:49

    I have a puzzle. Why were there multiple models of 1963-64 fuel pumps being made during the same time span? All seem to be for 260/289 engines. Here is a list of pumps I have seen, seen pictures of, or held in my hands.


    Casting Model Date

    0-1576 3623S 3B

    0-1600 3623S C3

    0-1600 3623S D3

    0-1600 3623S E3

    ? 3623S F3

    ? 3732S H3

    ? 3732S H3

    0-1576 3623S J3

    0-1576 3623S J3

    0-1576 3623S L3

    0-1658 3732S L3

    0-1658 3732S L3

    ? 3734S L3

    0-1658 3732S A4

    ? 3732S C4

    ? 3734S C4

    ? 3736S F4

    0-1658 3734S G4


    I believe I understand the casting identification for the main body. I would just guess they were different mold numbers as where I work we have as many as four molds to make one part of the same design. Just holding a 3623S, a 3732S, and 3734S side by side you can see some differences in the valve bodies.


    The most obvious difference to me is that the 3623S has a differnt angle between the inlet and outlet ports than the others. I wonder why the different port orientations and model numbers?


    Dan Case

    Dan, I have the following:


    O-1561 3568S J 6-2 (Sept. 62)

    O-1561 3568S 4-1 K (Oct. 62)

    O-1600 3623S F3

    O-1658 3732S A4

    O-1658 3734S L3

    O-1658 3734S C4

    O-1658 (no number) H-8 Ford service replacement


    O-1561 (#3568S) is 1963 production (221 & 260) until about 10-31-62. It does not have the X on the tower. Outlet is about 15° clockwise from centerline. Closest screw hole between lower and upper body about 1/8" clockwise from centerline.


    O-1600 (#3623S) is 1963 production after 10-31-62 (221, 260, 289, 289 HiPo). It has the X on the tower (with improved design to reduce pump noise). Outlet is about 15° clockwise from centerline. Closest screw hole between lower and upper body about 1/8" clockwise from centerline. (Essentially the same as the O-1561 pump with improved design.)


    O-1658 (#3732S and #3634S) is 1964 production (260, 289, 289 HiPo). Outlet is about 35° clockwise from centerline. Closest screw hole between lower and upper body about 3/8" counter clockwise from centerline.


    By-the-way, I would love to trade or buy your O-1600 3623S C3 or D3 fuel pump. I have a 1963 Fairlane 289 HiPo assembled on 3D9 and would like to rebuild a date-correct fuel pump for it.

    <BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>

    I have a 1963 Fairlane 289 HiPo assembled on 3D9 and would like to rebuild a date-correct fuel pump for it.

    <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana" size=2 id=quote>


    Bob,

    The only one of those early ones that I have any idea where it is now is the 0-1600 3623S C3 one. I'll send you an e-mail.


    Any idea why there why 3623S and 3732S models were being made at the same time and why 3732S and 3734S versions were being made at the same time? In each case the overlap period was long enough to have been something other than an accident.


    Dan

    My guess is that the numbers were far less important to Carter than they are to us, and that the numbers given to Ford were snap shots. I would have imagined that Carter made the pumps in batches and the numbers had significance internally on tracking parts and reliability.


    What seems to be important is the orientation of the inlet. The 1561, 1576, and 1600 castings orient the inlet about 15° off centerline. The 1658 castings gives about 35°. Separating the two is the model year change from 1963 to 1964, which was around August 1963.


    In the list of pumps, we have a good separation between pumps before "H" (August) being 1561, 1576, and 1600 castings. H and later are 1658. There are three pumps out of that sequence. They were 1576 pumps with dates of J3 and L3. They even use the earlier stamped codes. My thought is that these could be service replacements. They are clearly configured as 1963 production pumps, but were made after 1964 production began.


    For those of us who remember the 1960s, fuel pump failures were fairly common. I always carried a spare fuel pump and had to replace one of two different occasions. In fact, I was so disgusted that the next one I bought was brand new. It failed after 50 miles from a broken diaphragm rod! In later years, the problem went away and we were getting good pumps that did not fail. In the 1980s and 1990s of daily driving, I never had a fuel pump failure, but these were different pumps from those of the 1960s.

    <BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>

    There are three pumps out of that sequence. They were 1576 pumps with dates of J3 and L3. They even use the earlier stamped codes. My thought is that these could be service replacements. They are clearly configured as 1963 production pumps, but were made after 1964 production began.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana" size=2 id=quote>


    These three units on my list are all on Cobra engines and all three are believed to be original to the cars. All three cars were finished in early 1964. One of them is my unrestored black car.


    Cobras have a problem with fuel line clearance. To deal with this Shelby's mechanics had to rotate the valve body to the front and add a 90° elbow fitting. Images of as received engines show stock Ford valve body orientations. Images of engines going or coming into chassis clearly show the rotation of the valve body and elbow.


    [Blocked Image: http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r187/rr64/MVC-003S-1.jpg]


    I am collecting parts for a Cobra engine and I bought a 0-1658 3734S. I rotated the valve body and installed the correct elbow. I am not sure it will work. The valve body on a 0-1658 3734S rotated like the 0-1576 3623S originals puts the inlet port real close to the harmonic balancer. I might have to do something else. I have been looking for a pump like found on three three Cobras since 2004 and had no luck. I have even had some of the larger rebuilding services check their inventory of cores and come up empty handed. More and more I am beginning to think the Cobras got special treatment fuel pump wise.


    Dan Case


    Edited by - rr64 on 02/18/2008 16:18:17


    Edited by - rr64 on 02/18/2008 16:29:22

    Regarding my 3908S pump - the key to usage on a small block is the arm number - not the body number - and it does appear to be equiped with a small block arm, but I will check it again to be sure. It ran perfect in the car for about 5 years - PLUS ran mid 14s in the 1/4 mile - so fuel delivery wasn't an issue. It did have a FORD REMAN decal and they may have used any body available to build pumps.

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