Cobra Kit Fender Insignia

    I just received my 4th edition of Tony Gregory's book...Great work!


    For years I have had some old medallions and insignias in boxes and one medallion in particular is a cobra insignia that has self adhesive backing. On page 95 of the 4th edition I see the same insignia with a medallion just like the ones I have in a box in my garage.

    Here's a link to a photo of one of them:

    http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2092522650080259586DexVRG


    My question is, what was the fender insignia used for that's shown on pg. 95 in the book?

    Oh, okay I see... so when someone bought a dealer supplied k-code upgrade for their motor they expected you slap this somewhere on the fender, or in place of the running horse? No wonder it's rare.

    Originals are very rare indeed. Repops are out there now though. They also happened to be 289 Cobra truck badges. It is my understanding they were all pinned though, not adhesive. Also stated in these ads.


    My Dad tells me many people back in the day put them where the GT badges usually were, or just above the 289 badges.


    I bought 2 repops and glued magnetic sheeting to them after cutting the pins off. I then place them on the fenders or inner fenders at certain car shows.


    This is where you could buy them seperate...


    [Blocked Image: http://www.hammar.dyndns.org/~djhamma/options/cobra/cobramedal.jpg]


    Here's where they came with the Tri-Power...


    [Blocked Image: http://www.hammar.dyndns.org/~djhamma/options/cobra/C4DZ6B068.jpg]


    Edited by - Beagle1 on 11/20/2006 20:14:03

    The one in Tony's book is mounted on a trapezoidal mounting bracket, the one on the highly optioned fastback is mounted to a circular base, and beagle1's ad shows a totally different medallion.


    Seems as though it was the owner choice to mount it any which way and anyplace they wanted on the car.

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    My question is, what was the fender insignia used for that's shown on pg. 95 in the book?

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    You may want to have a read through this thread as well:

    http://www.hipomustang.com/hpmx/topic.asp…ue&TOPIC_ID=968

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    Anyone know what ever happened to this Kar?


    Pretty cool, Cobra medallions on the fenders in one of those pics, right where I attach mine at the car shows. Yet they are different than mine, and from the ones shown in the 1963 Cobra parts catalog.


    But the same as MTS'. Must have been a a couple different kinds back then I suppose, like everything else with these Kars. I am assuming somewhere in late 64, early 65 they may have changed from my style to the MTS owned style with the OTC parts kits.


    [Blocked Image: http://www.billsclassiccars.com/cars/65goldmustang_9.jpg]

    There was more than one “original” Cobra emblem as installed on Cobras or sold over the counter as accessories.


    Information in print is scarce. What can be documented in parts lists or period new car photographs include:


    (Quotes indicate wording directly from a Shelby American document.)


    "S1CS-19523-A Emblem, Shelby AC Cobra (first winged)" – issued 1962, a “winged” oval as supplied by AC Cars and used mainly on early Cobras completed on the east cost or the UK (counterfeits are available in the restoration market)


    "S1CS-19523-B Emblem, AC_Cobra 2 9/16" – issued 1963, a 2 9/16” round part contracted by Mr. Shelby locally and used on most west coast Cobras prior to at least CSX2132, a.k.a. flat head or worm head emblem, it is undocumented but believed a small number of these emblems were included in some induction kits (Webers for example) based reports from people that bought accessories for dealer installation on their new Fords in 1964 (counterfeits are available in the restoration market)


    "S1CS-19523- Emblem, AC _Cobra" (the full part number is S1CS-19523-C but the C suffix is missing from the 1965 parts list) – issued 1963, a 2” round part as designed by Mr. Peter Brock for Cobras because of his dislike of the S1CS-19523-B part, it is undocumented but believed a small number of these emblems were included in some induction kits based reports from people that bought accessories for dealer installation on their new Fords in 1964-65 (no known counterfeits are available as of November 2006)


    C3RA-14225-A “64/66 ALL 289/427” [“Roadsters”] – a 2” round version FoMoCo commissioned and made by one of their major suppliers. It is currently believed this part became available some time in 1966 as it is not mentioned in Shelby’s May 1965 parts book. (many different counterfeits are available in the restoration market)


    Also interesting is that FoMoCo and SAI advertisements printed / published prior to about the beginning of 1966 show pictures or artistic renditions of the S1CS-C 2" part. An educated guess is that the C3RA-14225-A was developed by FoMoCo to fill the volume needed for sale in "Cobra Kits" starting in early 1966. The emblems were included by 1966 in and as part of a variety of over-the-counter "Cobra kits" and a pair of emblems was the "Medallion [kit] C3RA-19D531-A". As far as I have documented the C3RA-19D531-A "kit" was only included as part of larger "Cobra Kits" and not sold individually; a pair came in a package without any identification other that the universal Cobra Kit identification decal. Individual emblems were available as service parts under their C3RA-14225-A number. FoMoCo and SAI sold or supplied the C3RA-A parts in large quantities apparently, not the 100 sets a year like Cobra production, based on availability today. Another educated guess is that C3RA-A emblems started being used in 1966 Cobra 427 production as soon as the supply of S1CS-C 2" parts ran out, some unrestored 427 Cobras still wear faded C3RA-A emblems.


    Shelby's company also offered large metallized "COBRA" decals as an accessory (thought to be part number SSCB-19511-B in the 12-23-66 catalog). Some factory works race cars wore these large decals on their front instead of any metal emblem.


    I could not find the picture again but I believe there is one more emblem, a water slide decal actually. I believe there is a picture in one of Mr. Fredman’s (spelling ?) books that shows a rectangular label on the exterior body of a works racer that says “COBRA”. It looks like the water slide decal some Shelby competition engines had on their valve covers.


    So, tallying this up, there were at least six (6) different COBRA lettered parts used on exterior body work of Cobra and 427 Cobras by Shelby’s works 1962-1967.


    It has taken me since 1971 to do it but I have made a collection of one each of these original parts except the water slide decal. I have an excellent copy of a water slide decal courtesy of the owner of an ex-works racer that went to the trouble to create some in the smallest detail for his old SAI team car decades ago. Original examples of normal production street Cobra part in all but the C3RA-A emblems are extremely rare not on a Cobra, in any condition now.


    As you may have noticed, most of these parts have been ‘reproduced’, a terrible description for what is out there. None of these copies are very close to an original part if you have an original part to compare to. The best copies I have seen were made by a jeweler as commissioned by the owner of an early 260 powered Cobra after somebody stole one of his “Shelby-AC-Cobra” emblems at an event. I bought my first counterfeit circa 1971 from J.C. Whitney’s. This catalog outfit advertised ‘original’ Cobra emblems, so I ordered two for my Mustang. (Dummy me didn’t realize the C3RA-A parts could be purchased locally at the Ford dealer still.) What arrived was cheap junk, poorly cast, poorly plated, and poorly painted on an adhesive back. I didn’t discard them until 2000 when we boxed up and moved to our present home. A few of years later a group of parts dealers selling parts to the Mustang hobby (you do remember the Maier Racing article that kicked off the dress your Mustang in Shelby items rage don’t you) commissioned a “reproduction” of the C3RA-A part, a decade later a copy of the copy was reproduced. These days there are several companies that have used their own tooling to create their own versions of the C3RA-A part, some even have a Ford part number on their backs.


    Dan


    Edited by - rr64 on 11/22/2006 09:16:28


    Edited by - rr64 on 07/20/2007 14:15:32

    C3RA-19D531-A "kit" included with various "Cobra Kits" circa late 1965 onward.

    [Blocked Image: http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r187/rr64/C3RA-Pack1.jpg]


    [Blocked Image: http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r187/rr64/C3RA-Pack3.jpg]


    [Blocked Image: http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r187/rr64/C3RA-19D531-A.jpg]


    Since this "kit" wasn't sold separately there was no description or part number on the package. The package contains two C3RA-14225-A emblems and two Tinnerman® brand rectangular put on nuts (in the second smaller envelope). (Please note that originals did not come in heat sealed plastic bags from Eurasia as offered on ebay® auctions as 'NOS' frequently.)


    Note the paper COBRA sticker on the outer envelope. These stickers were not sold, the best I can tell. They just came on the outer package of any "Cobra Kit". I have seen original NOS parts still in their factory packages with these stickers on everything from a linkage kit for a Fairlane 3-2V linkage kit to a five bolt Cobra lettered scattershield. I bought a NOS "Cobra Kit" pressure plate and clutch for my 1965 GT350 I had in the 1970s and there were these sticker on those boxes, in fact I found the only stickers not attached to something I have ever seen in the disk's box. In that box was a torn off piece of roll fed label stock with two of these stickers still unused. An accident to be sure. There were more than one size of these stickers from pretty small to quite large on the scattershield box.


    Dan


    Edited by - rr64 on 11/22/2006 11:02:58

    Original Ford C3RA-14225-A emblems are pretty crude when viewed close up and compared to the Shelby parts they were the replacements for. All the 1970s and later copies parts dealers have had made are visually higher quality. All originals show clear evidence of being made in one single cavity permanent mold. The appearance quality of both sides of the part degraded over the span of production and very late parts have very many visual defects, including incomplete filling of details on the front side. Images below show a NOS part from roughly middle of production based on mold condition.


    [Blocked Image: http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r187/rr64/C3RA-FRONT.jpg]


    [Blocked Image: http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r187/rr64/C3RA-REAR.jpg]

    Thanks for all that info Dan. I have repop C3 emblems, not boght as NOS.


    Now, the Cobra stickers that were on the boxes...I have two mint rather large ones in a plastic sleeve from Bob Ford in Dearborn, MI. Same thing, they were in a box that a tech back in the 60's opened to install one of the Cobra parts.


    A very close, but much older friend (alternate father figure) of mine preserved them for 30+ years in his desk (he was the shop foreman until around 1999). He gave them to me when I left to move away. God rest his soul, he took good care of a loudmouth 18 year old kid and showed me the ways of the world over the next 9 years.

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    Now, the Cobra stickers that were on the boxes...I have two mint rather large ones in a plastic sleeve from Bob Ford in Dearborn, MI. Same thing, they were in a box that a tech back in the 60's opened to install one of the Cobra parts. Beagle1 <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana" size=2 id=quote>


    Your uninstalled stickers are some of the rarer Cobra related bits you'll likely ever see. Congrat's.


    I have put together a collection of an original example of every emblem used on street or works race Cobras and 427 Cobras except for the water slide decal for 289 race engines and the "AC" script emblem that COX and COB (Cobras made for sale outside the USA) Cobras used in Europe instead of "COBRA" emblems. Trying to obtain one of everything has been much more difficult, time consuming (I started in 1971), and costly than I ever imagined. Very many of the Cobra / 427 Cobra production parts were never made in large quantities and people have been grabbing up what was available for cars all these years to near totally deplete the loose few spares that were made.


    Believe it or not most of what I have purchased has come from estate sales of Ford employees of the mid 1960s. The relatives liquidating estates often have no idea what they are selling and on ebay® mis-describe parts so badly that I am often the only bidder. Just a couple of years ago I bought a NOS pair of production S1CS-C emblems from an estate for way less than one reproduction C3RA-A part. They were advertised as 1965 Mustang GT Emlbems. I was the only bidder.


    As more of the Ford performance enthusiasts of the 1960s pass on there is just no telling what will hit the market.


    Dan


    Edited by - rr64 on 11/22/2006 20:14:10

    Hello fellow K code nuts, I have a set of the original Cobra medallions on my 65 K code fastback , they are like the ones pictured here, the snake is much fierecer than later models and are held on with nuts from the back side, mine are mounted under the Hipo emblems on the leading edge of the fender. As noted they were part of most any Cobra kit ordered from Ford , or were sold seperatley. If anyone would like to know more, please contact me. Hope everyone has a Happy Thanksgiving, and if anyone is in Columbus this weekend, look me up, I live in Reynoldsburg and would be happy to show anyone my car, I am very proud of it. Best regards. Herb

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    As more of the Ford performance enthusiasts of the 1960s pass on there is just no telling what will hit the market.


    Dan


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    Dan, the thing that is much worse than someone selling stuff to cheap, is throwing it out! If someone like you buys below market for your collection, that's great.


    But how many rare items do you think families of former employees throw away? 20 years ago, before the WWW, I used to go to plenty of people's homes for Mustang parts from the classifieds of a newspaper. Some of there current or former FoMoCo employees had some cool rare stuff. How many people have seen CLEAR 289 valve covers? Used on the dyno in Dearborn to watch for vavletrain issues. I didn't buy them for $20 back then. I was just a kid.


    Gives me chills thinking of how much stuff ended up in landfills.

    Just in case anybody would like to see the very first Cobra emblem

    design up close, as supplied by AC Cars Ltd, I dug an original out yesterday to photograph.


    [Blocked Image: http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r187/rr64/S1CS-A.jpg]


    S1CS-19523-A Emblem, Shelby AC Cobra (first winged)" – issued

    1962, a “winged” oval as supplied by AC Cars and used mainly on

    early Cobras completed on the east cost or the UK (counterfeits

    are available in the restoration market but they use much different

    paint colors inside the letters and do not have the 'snake skin'

    relief details in the letters)


    Mr. Shelby is reported to have disliked this design a lot and had the

    S1CS-19523-B design shown above created to replace it. Mr. Brock

    disliked the S1CS-19523-B design and it is reported he designed the

    most widely recognized small red white and blue background design

    to replace the S1CS-19523-B; originally the S1CS-19523-C part by

    Shelby and later replaced by the C3RA design by Ford.


    Dan

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    These C3RA-14225-A emblems just sold on eBay.


    http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/…13427&rd=1&rd=1

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    They are not original 1960s Ford ones. Check out the pictures in my 11/22/06 post.

    Originals have

    1) A rough stippled background that simulates a sand cast texture.

    2) Color fields were spray painted using masks to protect fields that didn't get particular color. All the paint is very thin and misses some small areas shadowed by the masks or raised details.

    3) Has not only a registered Ford trade mark logo but also the trade mark logo of the supplier that made them.

    4) Are usually rougher all over, especially around the outer edge, than all counterfeits.


    Then ones auctioned show

    1)Smooth background.

    2)Apparently hand painted details with very thick paint wicking up the sides of raised details.

    3) Does not have the Ford or supplier trade marks, also lettering present does not match originals.

    4) The casting and plating appear much smoother than the hundreds of originals examined since circa 1972.


    Edited by - rr64 on 02/10/2007 08:41:57

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