K-Code starters

frank.herbst_old · May 11, 2011 at 6:23 AM

I bought a rebuilt starter yesterday and asked for a 66 289 manual transmission starter. It does not fit into the plate between the transmission and the engine block. Its diameter is about 1/8 inch to big. The starter that came with the car (C3##) fits fine it is just old and I did not want to clean it up and then have it quit working later.

How can I find a rebuilt starter that will fit?

Thanks - Frank

Edited by - SixT5HiPo on 05/27/2011 00:37:00

C6ZZKGT · May 11, 2011 at 6:49 AM Official Post

If you still have your old starter, just change the nose from your old starter over to the rebuilt starter and you will be done. It will only take a couple of minutes and does not involve messing with brushes or anything else.

-Fred-

frank.herbst_old · May 11, 2011 at 7:14 AM

Fred,

I’m curious about production dates. Was there a size change on the nose after 66? And I guess from your input the bendix gear is the same regardless of the number of teeth on the flywheel. The reason I ask is I think the 289 small block had two different flywheels (by number of teeth) depending on the year it was produced.

Thanks for the help…

C6ZZKGT · May 11, 2011 at 11:31 AM Official Post

Frank, The starter nose is by application and did not change size after 1966. You just have the wrong one for some reason. The starter drive is the same for both size flywheels.

-Fred-

frank.herbst_old · May 11, 2011 at 12:39 PM

Fred,

I exchanged email with Bob and will work out something through him. Either get him to rebuild mine or see if the has a good one for my car.

Thanks for the information, starters usually just plug-in and work.

Helmantel_old · May 11, 2011 at 3:04 PM

I recently learned that the difference that starter vendors make between MT and AT is a mistake. The starters (offset) differs for 157T and 164T flywheels. So, you need to order a starter for an automatic in order to get one for a 157T manual flywheel. The information comes from Bob Mannel, so you'll know it's accurate

frank.herbst_old · May 12, 2011 at 5:42 AM

We are hoping to start our HiPo engine up in the next week or two. This engine has not been on the road for ~35 years. Thanks to knowledgeable people like you, that have been willing to help out it just might run again.

Thanks for the information.

cobraboy · May 12, 2011 at 11:33 AM

Guys

This whole starter thing has just got even more confusing to me.

So now there is a different offset ? what does that mean ?

I thought the snouts were different between M/T and A/T, but apparantly they are the same ?.

How do you get offset on a starter to cope with more teeth ?

Could someone explain - thanks

C6ZZKGT · May 12, 2011 at 11:57 AM Official Post

I am unclear as to any offset on the starter itself. The bell housings for small and large flywheels already have the offset for the starter location for their respective sized flywheels.

-Fred-

frank.herbst_old · May 12, 2011 at 2:11 PM

I’m learning about 66 starters as we go along. Right now I think what is being written is the re-manufactures are selling a starter that will fit the small flywheel 66 manual cars, they just list it as an automatic starter.

What I can tell you is my car had what looks like an original starter. It has a C3## nose on it. The opening in the starter plate (mounted between the bell housing and the engine) measures 4 3/32”. The starters my local parts guys are selling are approximately 1/8” bigger (the diameter of the part of the starter the fits into the starter plate) than my original starter so it will not fit into the starter plate. I ordered a starter for an automatic car (it comes in tomorrow morning) so I will measure everything on it compared to my original starter. Two different sources have confirmed the automatic starter is what I need.

I’ll let you guys know how this works out.

Frank

frank.herbst_old · May 16, 2011 at 7:47 AM

I picked up a rebuilt 66 289 starter for an automatic, then checked all of the measurements against my original starter and all measurements where the same. I can only guess that maybe the HiPo flywheel was the same number of teeth and diameter as the automatic flywheel or maybe they are just listed wrong by the rebuilders. I’m also having my machine shop rebuild the original starter. If anyone needs any type of machine shop work I highly recommend Ralph at (540) 659-3797. He is absolutely anal when it comes to precision. Other machine shops around the country send him specialty parts (for crack/damage repair) that have to be saved. Mostly very rare car parts that are not available. He has done several 289/302 and 428’s for us. The last 428 he did for me held 22 on the vacuum gauge at idle. Pretty good valve and cylinder fit/seal going on there.

Thanks again for your help with the starter questions,

Frank

bobmannel · May 26, 2011 at 9:25 AM

All small-block starter motors from 1962-64 are the same. In 1965 Ford introduced the large flywheel which took a different starter motor (shorter nose). Only certain models received this new flywheel in 1965 -- namely Galaxies and Fairlanes. All others continued to use the older starter -- namely Falcons, Mustangs, and Comets. There was one exception -- the 1965 Comet 289 HiPo used the larger flywheel. But, all Mustangs, including the HiPo used the smaller flywheel and older starter. Automatics from 1965 all used the older starter, including the small-blocks with the larger (168/164-tooth) flex-plate. Only the Galaxie used this large flex-plate. All others used the smaller 160/157-tooth flex-plate.

So, the only cars to use the short-nose starter were M/T-equipped 1965/67 Galaxies, 1965/68 Fairlanes, 1966/68 Comets, 1967/68 Cougars, and 1967/68 Falcons with 2V. All Mustangs used the normal one.

For Mustangers, ask for a Mustang automatic starter and you should get the correct one. If you ask for a manual trans starter, its a crap-shoot as to whether they will get it right because it "depends" on too many little known factors.

s2ms · May 26, 2011 at 10:57 AM

Bob,

Do you know when Ford replaced the 160 tooth ring gear with the 157 tooth?

Thanks,

Dave

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