Casting dates vs. build dates

Quote from relicdog

After reading some of the old info on

Our Kars, I’m finally at ease about date codes on my Kar, my scheduled

build date an motor assembly date

are the same 6-8-65 I was always concerned about this even though

the block is vin. stamped. Bob Mannell says this is not only possible

but he an others have the same senerio, there’s probably others also.

The info is in research page 3, would

welcome all others comments on this subject.

Thanks,

Relidog

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I am unclear as to when this happened, but logically in 1966, there were Kars built waiting for engines as Ford was having trouble keeping up with production even on standard 289's. Therefore it seems probable that there are Kars out there with engine build dates after the scheduled build date of the Kar. This is pure conjecture on my part but I have heard it enough times over the years that I tend to feel that there is some truth to it. And I did NOT hear it on the internet so maybe it is NOT true at all. : )

The reason that I mention 1966 as being more likely is that Ford was having such trouble keeping up with 289 production that the came out with, I believe the "Sprint 6 package", probably the wrong name. The salesmen at that time were basically told to "demo the 8 and sell the 6". This was also the year that the Windsor engine plant began producing 289 engines, however all Hipo 289 engines were produced at the Cleveland plant, I am certainly open to discussion on all of this either way, but this is my belief.

Also keep in mind that scheduled build dates are not carved in stone and are just scheduled dates and not actual production dates. Anything can hold up completing a car so the actual build date definitely can vary.

-Fred-

Quote from 65shelby

I've had my '66 since 2005 and it has all of it's original paperwork. It was ordered on 12/26/65 and built on 4/26/66. So agree with Fred on the difficulty with keeping up with production, on K-Codes at least. Mine is a Dearborn build, and was delivered to Grand Rapids on 4/27/66. So it was built on or most likely a day or so before the scheduled door tag date of 26D. My engine casting date is 3/25/66 (6C25) and was assembled on 4/7/66 (6D07C). I've always heard engine assy. dates to be several weeks to several months ahead of the Build Date, but never the same day. If the casting date pre-dates the engine assembly date, and the stamped VIN is correct to the Kar, then I suppose it's possible. If the VIN is missing or the stamp font/characters look wonky, or not in the right location, then I'd say not. There's also a Date Code stamp on the oil pan sealing service that should coincide with the assembly date as well. To be continued????

Mark

Just for clarification, the date code stamp on the oil pan sealing surface is actually the machining date of the block after the casting and before the assembly date. I have seen them quite close and also far away from each other.

-Fred-

In regards to the reference to "wonky" VIN stampings on blocks, I have been involved with and still have many VIN stamped 65 and 66 Hipo blocks and engines. I have not been involved with VIN stamped 67 blocks or engines so this discussion does not apply to them. The only ones that I have seen that were close to what would appear to be neat and factory are San Jose Kars. This is not to say that they are perfectly in line but appear far better than Dearborn. They are obviously not gang stamped but seem to have reasonably good order. I have only seen one from Metucheon and it is actually more like a San Jose stamping. This is not to say that San Jose always did a better job, I have just not seen any really bad ones like some from Dearborn. I have even witnessed some from Dearborn where the "K" was stamped in reverse. The alignment of the Dearborn stampings is generally poor and very obviously not gang stamped like the VIN on the fender aprons. The stamping appears to have been done in haste and without much talent involved. I would call these "wonky" but they seem to be the norm for Dearborn.

VIN stampings on 4 speed transmissions are a different animal as San Jose is alone where they stamped their 4 speed transmissions. Their VIN stamp is on the lower part of the main case casting for the lower bolt for the tail housing. There is actually not enough room there to stamp an eleven digit VIN but darned if they didn't try really hard to squeeze it in. It is generally quite jumbled and nowhere near straight. Dearborn 4 speed transmission VIN stamps, on the other hand, are done on the lower part of the main casing front to rear near the drain plug. I find them to be generally neat . I have not observed a Metucheon transmission VIN stamp but if they are like Dearborn, they would beat the heck out of San Jose.

-Fred-

While we are on the VIN stamping subject, I have a question for which I, as yet, have no actual answer.

To my knowledge, no other Ford engine prior to 1968 received a VIN stamp including the 427 and 428. The Hipo 289 stood alone as far as I know in Ford at getting a VIN stamp.

Beginning in the 1968 year model a Federal requirement for VIN stamps on engines and transmissions went into effect. Chevrolet had been VIN stamping engines and transmissions on 4 speed equipped cars since at least 1963. All high performance Chevrolet engines were also VIN stamped. Corvettes received VIN stamps on engines regardless of horsepower ratings. Their engine VIN stamps are on the engine ID pad at the front of the cylinder head and easy to see. This did continue after the 1968 Federal requirement. Beginning in 1968 when all engines and transmissions regardless of type or manufacturer received VIN stamps, they were generally done in inaccessible areas that were not reasonably possible to be stamped once the engine and transmission assembly was installed. Reading these VIN stamps once the engine and transmission assembly were installed generally required a mirror and a flashlight to see them. Generally these VIN stamps on the engines were fairly neat. The Boss 429 was an exception as they were very obviously hand stamped and NOT by artists. All of these VIN stamps were done prior to the engine and transmission assembly being installed in the vehicle. The VIN stamps beginning in 1968 generally only involved, for Ford, the Car Assembly plant letter and the six digit VIN.

With all that being said, is it possible, due to the location of Ford VIN stamps on Hipo 289 engines and 4 speed transmissions, that they were stamped after the engine and transmission assembly were installed? The engine would be tougher but possible. The transmission would be reasonably easy. Does anyone on here know for sure? I have not seen this subject brought up before anywhere.

-Fred-

Quote from relicdog

Thanks

Fred an Mark I appreciate the info, I’m not worried about the vin. stamped block as much as the same dates with motor assembly an door tag dates being the same.

Like I said read Bob’s comments on this subject.

As far as the vin. stamping on block

the fellow who rebuilt my motor thought the vin. stamping looked correct. This is the same guy who rebuilds (Brants -Va classic mustang) his K-codes an Shelbys motors an also rebuilds motors for ( Maple Hill Restorations) in other words he’s seen his share of vin. stamped blocks, it’s the same date on motor assembly an door tag that I would like your opinion on.

Mark I also have been around Mustangs along time, my senior year in high school 1973 my first Kar was a 1965 K-Code droptop, loved that Kar wish I still owned it.

Thanks,

Larry

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Larry, I only did the long dissertation on VIN stamps as it seemed like the right venue for it. It was not meant truly as an answer to your original question as there seems to have been other replies to that question. I also believe that it is possible to have the engine stamp and scheduled build date as being alike but I have no personal knowledge of this.

-Fred-

Quote from relicdog

Thanks Fred,

I will let you know when I receive the PCV valve, I asked a question on a different post about door tag dates, In your opinion is it scheduled date or actual build date that’s on door tag.
Thanks,

Larry

The info date info on the data plate (door tag) is the scheduled build date but not necessarily the actual build date.

-Fred