early K code 289 HIPO equipment

66FastbackGT_old · February 19, 2006 at 9:06 PM

I have recently acquired some true K code HIPO equipment and I wanted to decode it and see what i Have

C3OE, date 3J19 - K Code head

C4OE date 3H29 - K code INTAKE

C4OE - Timing cover

where can I go to find out what these are off of. I was told they may be off a Shelby AC Cobra

thanks

marv · February 20, 2006 at 8:04 AM

Chances are that they are off of a HiPo Fairlane or Comet.

66FastbackGT_old · February 20, 2006 at 8:12 PM

what makes you say that? just because?

http://www.nvsaac.com/shelbyparts/heads.htm

1963-65 Cobra 289 - CSX2076-CSX2589 Head C3OE-6090-E or F screw in studs; cast in valve spring pocket

matches my numbers perfectly.

I know they COULD be any of those models, but how can I tell?

wish i knew if the the three parts go together too.

Edited by - 66FastbackGT on 02/20/2006 20:15:51

SixT5HiPo · February 21, 2006 at 11:47 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>

what makes you say that? just because?<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

There's no sure way to know if those are original heads from a Cobra unless you're the original owner who removed them from a Cobra. There were aproximately 500 K code Fairlanes built in 1963, and about the same number in 1964. We're not sure how many 1964 HiPo Comets were made, but I'd guess less than 100, and they probably used C4OE-B HiPo heads...All HiPo heads were revised by April 1964, and a C4OE-B casting number was used on these "late" 1964 heads. By the summer of 1964, the C4OE-B heads quickly gave way to the C5OE-A or C5AE-E heads with revised machining to accept the alternator mounting bolts.

It's possible that as many as 1500 5 bolt HiPo engines with C3OE and C4OE heads were made, with at least half of them going into the K code Fairlanes, and the rest going to Shelby American. Shelby probably purchased extra engines and sets of heads for replacement stock, but unless they were all acquired before the castings were revised, the casting numbers and date codes would change as time passed. Since there were less 289 Cobra's built than K code Fairlanes, odds are more likely those heads came from a Fairlane than a Cobra.

Another reason is that a majority of K code Fairlanes have been scrapped at this point in time. The engines and drivetrains were pulled because the prospects of doing full a restoration on a rusted out K code Fairlane aren't as profitable or easy as just selling the highly valued HiPo parts-especially to those who want to have extra engines and parts for 289 Cobra's, most of which have been preserved.

66FastbackGT_old · February 21, 2006 at 7:52 PM

Nice post. Thanks alot for the information. So, really no way to know exactly but at least the numbers to match accordingly to the 1963 289 COBRA heads, they are exact.

These may have to stay with me for a while. They do not appear to be messed with.

Edited by - 66FastbackGT on 04/03/2006 02:52:36

Halowe_old · September 19, 2006 at 5:26 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>

Nice post. Thanks alot for the information. So, really no way to know exactly but at least the numbers to match accordingly to the 1963 289 COBRA heads, they are exact.

These may have to stay with me for a while. They do not appear to be messed with.

Edited by - 66FastbackGT on 04/03/2006 02:52:36

rr64_old · September 23, 2006 at 7:31 AM

Hello,I registered on this site to respond to this thread.Regarding engines and engine castings in Cobras produced between early 1962 and 1965. They can be almost anything engineering number and date code wise. Because they can be and have been found to be just about anything is why Mr. Mannel left them out of his book per my correspondence with him. Adding to the confusion is that parts were delivered from Ford or its suppliers in lots. These parts were mated to car as they were finished. The cars were not finished in any kind of serial number order. Whether or not part date codes on parts make sense to a particular car depend on how those dates line up with when the car was completed. Evidence suggests that one lot of parts from a supplier might have covered the production of a hundred or more Cobras spread out over more than six months. Typical original Cobra owners have not until very recently given much thought about original parts, especially engines. Wheeler dealers never cared unless claims of originality increased their profit. Most owners did not seem to care if the car was completely correct or not, they finally got a genuine Cobra in the garage. This is especially true if the person spent upwards of thirty years accumulating the wealth and chasing the market curve until their funds and car values crossed paths. I know of one gentleman that started off circa 1966 trying to get an original Cobra and finally met the cross roads of funding, market value, and opportunity in 2003. He had the car for a year before he started wondering whether or not parts matched his car. There is an owner group that started documenting details of original equipment a few years ago. This group is by and large owner enthusiasts that have owned their Cobras for decades, some are original owners.The information gathered to date covers cars finished in early 1962 all the way to the very last leaf spring roadsters. Much of if from the small number of never seriously crashed, highly modified, or restored Cobras. Engineering numbers cover just about the whole range of what would have been found in Fairlanes between 1962 and 1964. We have documented C2OE-, XE-, C3OE-, C3AE-, C4OE-, C5OE-, and a few other engineering number prefixes for non engine parts. The C2OE- and XE- engine part prefixes were found in very early (early to be completed) cars with 260 engines. I have heard rumors of an SK- marked 1-4V iron intake but I have not seen one. (SK Intake Update: 09/27/06 I did not remember the pictures Rick Wood took in the 1980s. Since this post I have found them. See later posts. Thanks.) As in other Fords, engineering prefixes and date codes have been found to overlap in Cobras in some cases. Note, approximately thirty Cobras with C4 automatic transmissions built near the end of 1964 had six bolt HP289 engines, whereas all other Cobras had five bolt versions. Date codes for drive train related Ford parts for Cobras have been just about the full range of 1962 to 1964 Fairlanes too, but usually grouped. Example, all the known original fuel pumps for 1964-65 Cobras were all made in a short time frame as one model number. Dates on individual parts may be considerably earlier than the car’s assembly date, with all main (block, heads, etc.) engine date codes usually pretty close together. Early in this thread and in discussions on several other websites is the question, how do I determine if this engine part was originally on a Cobra? As a rule you can not unless you were present when it was removed from the car. There is an exception, engine blocks. Since Ford and or Shelby American were good enough to include an engine serial number most Cobra owners have access to what that original number is. Cars with chassis CSX2201 through CSX2589 had this information stamped on to the warrantee identification plate riveted to the right side footbox.

Edited by - rr64 on 09/27/2006 19:41:56

Halowe_old · September 25, 2006 at 10:39 AM

If the information that Shelby and/or Ford supplied to the NHRA is accurate, a 1963 Cobra head can be distinquished from a "standard" 1963 Hipo head. The valves are larger in Cobra applications.

In 1963:

289 Hipo head - 1.677 intake/1.457 exhaust.

289 Hipo head used in Cobra - 1.875 intake/1.625 exhaust.

[The 260 XHP head used in the Cobra in very early 1963 - 1.843 intake/1.625 exhaust.]

Halowe_old · September 25, 2006 at 10:44 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>

The C2OE- and XE- engine part prefixes were found in very early (early to be completed) cars with 260 engines. I have heard rumors of an SK- marked 1-4V iron intake but I have not seen one. As <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

I am familiar with the iron XE single four-barrel intake used on the 260 XHP (1962-early 1963). They have a casting number of C2OE-9425-K with an additional casting number XE-106391. I have not seen or heard of an SK marked intake for the 260 application, though.

rr64_old · September 27, 2006 at 5:33 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>

If the information that Shelby and/or Ford supplied to the NHRA is accurate, a 1963 Cobra head can be distinquished from a "standard" 1963 Hipo head. The valves are larger in Cobra applications.

In 1963:

289 Hipo head - 1.677 intake/1.457 exhaust.

289 Hipo head used in Cobra - 1.875 intake/1.625 exhaust.

[The 260 XHP head used in the Cobra in very early 1963 - 1.843 intake/1.625 exhaust.]

The heads on the original engine in my Cobra seem to be just normal Fairlane parts, everything is in configuration and size for a Fairlane. The heads are C3OE dated 4A14 and C3OE dated 3M23. In our survey of 1963-64 assembled 5-bolt engines in Cobras in which we have a high confidence they were the car's original, just normal HP289 heads show up. In fact everything in the engines right down to bearing shells for the crank and rods was just Fairlane HP289. Well, I take that back, three exceptions. Some cars have transmissions with the Pontiac input shaft and they require a GM clutch disc. Late production chassis with Ford alternators have unique mounting brackets for alternators and use the large pulley 1963 Ford alternator from the high end “optional” charging system. Shelby’s crew added a heater water shut-off valve at the intake.

The odd balls are the 260 engines used in Cobras. I have been trying to get a friend to dig his castings out (the original engine has been out of his Cobra since the 1960s when a "Shelby Race" engine was installed) without success. They are very far back in a store room, twenty years back. Otherwise there is a early 260 purchased many years ago at a swap meet that was supposed to have come from one of the first dozen Cobras completed. The heads are marked XE-10021 and XE-10021-3 with 1.67 / 1.45 valves. I have not seen them myself but a member of our group has.

rr64_old · September 27, 2006 at 5:51 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>

The C2OE- and XE- engine part prefixes were found in very early (early to be completed) cars with 260 engines. I have heard rumors of an SK- marked 1-4V iron intake but I have not seen one. As <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

I am familiar with the iron XE single four-barrel intake used on the 260 XHP (1962-early 1963). They have a casting number of C2OE-9425-K with an additional casting number XE-106391. I have not seen or heard of an SK marked intake for the 260 application, though.

Rick Wood took pictures of CSX2000 for a magazine article in the 1980s when Mr. Shelby allowed the car out for a rare appearance. Rick took pictures of a lot of items at my request. At the time it had a 1-4V intake marked SK12569. I am not sure where the pictures are these days but the SK12569 is the number listed in my notes of unusual Cobra parts.

I have a camshaft stamped SK8821 HC7 that I was told was for a Cobra race engine with Webers but I haven't found anybody with a SK parts interchange list.

Edited by - rr64 on 09/27/2006 18:10:01

rr64_old · September 27, 2006 at 7:29 PM

Found Rick Wood’s pictures of CSX2000’s engine made in the 1980s.

1-4V iron intake SK12569

engine block C2OE-6015-J

fan belt FoMoCo® (in oval) C2OE-6620-AD (could be AB) MADE IN USA AU-1-2 515

distributor vacuum advance port pluged, some type of unusal part number sticker on side faded to obsecurity

Halowe_old · September 28, 2006 at 10:53 AM

Thanks for that info, rr64.

As you probably know, the C2OE-6015-J block has the six inch motor mounts. Whether the C2OE-6015-J was used or the C3OE-6015-B (with 7 inch mounts) was used for the XHP 260 has been a point of some contention. It never made sense to me that it would have been only the C3OE-6015-B block, but there could have been a running change with both blocks being provided from Ford to Shelby at different times.

Did you note whether the SK12569 intake also has a regular Ford casting number, like the XE-106391 intake does?

An acquantance of mine that is a Boss 429 guy says he has a descriptive listing of "all SK numbers", but I'm not sure if he means only the Boss 429 SK numbers or really ALL SK numbers. I need to give him a call to check out an SK number for me on a Holman Moody 429 cam. When I do, I'll ask him about that.

SixT5HiPo · September 28, 2006 at 12:08 PM

Thanks to the recent and interesting posts on this thread, maybe it should be moved to our "RESEARCH" forum...

Halowe_old · September 28, 2006 at 12:25 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>

The heads are marked XE-10021 and XE-10021-3 with 1.67 / 1.45 valves. I have not seen them myself but a member of our group has.

Could you ask him if he took note of the number on the end of the head? Known Hipo numbers are 19, 20 and 21. I'd be very interested to know what this number was for the XHP.

Halowe_old · September 28, 2006 at 12:31 PM

What do you guys think this engine is?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/…TRK%3AMEWA%3AIT

I'd say it was a 260 and that somebody just put a four-barrel intake on it. BUT...the seller claims that the block and intake have the same date code (3C1, March 1, 1963). Could this be a 260 XHP!? I've communicated with the seller over the past several days, and communication is poor to say the very least. Anybody in that area of Ohio that could go inspect it?

Edited by - Halowe on 09/28/2006 12:34:17

Halowe_old · September 28, 2006 at 12:32 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>

Thanks to the recent and interesting posts on this thread, maybe it should be moved to our "RESEARCH" forum...

Definitely needs to be moved. But, how is that done?

rr64_old · September 28, 2006 at 5:14 PM

XE Heads

The only numbers mentioned are the XE ones.

SK Intake

All I see are the SK number behind the carburetor and large cylinder identification numbers on runners.

SixT5HiPo · September 29, 2006 at 12:14 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>

Thanks to the recent and interesting posts on this thread, maybe it should be moved to our "RESEARCH" forum...

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>

Definitely needs to be moved. But, how is that done?

No sooner said than done <img src=images/icon_smile.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=images/icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

early K code 289 HIPO equipment

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