Cobra Kit Fender Insignia

rr64_old · July 20, 2007 at 2:23 PM

F.Y.I...I did some editing to correct some of my information.

Cheers.

Dan

SixT5HiPo · July 20, 2007 at 6:12 PM

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F.Y.I...I did some editing to correct some of my information.

Cheers.

Dan

That's what the "EDIT" button's for...<img src=images/icon_smile_approve.gif border=0 align=middle>

350gt66_old · August 1, 2007 at 9:42 PM

I have a set I bought at a swap meet a few years ago that have the C3 part number with no COBRA name on them. I have just moved and am not sure what box they are in.

Scott302 · August 5, 2007 at 9:39 AM

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C3RA-14225-A “64/66 ALL 289/427” [“Roadsters”] – a 2” round version FoMoCo commissioned and made by one of their major suppliers. It is currently believed this part became available some time in 1966 as it is not mentioned in Shelby’s May 1965 parts book. (many different counterfeits are available in the restoration market)

Also interesting is that FoMoCo and SAI advertisements printed / published prior to about the beginning of 1966 show pictures or artistic renditions of the S1CS-C 2" part. An educated guess is that the C3RA-14225-A was developed by FoMoCo to fill the volume needed for sale in "Cobra Kits" starting in early 1966. The emblems were included by 1966 in and as part of a variety of over-the-counter "Cobra kits" and a pair of emblems was the "Medallion [kit] C3RA-19D531-A". As far as I have documented the C3RA-19D531-A "kit" was only included as part of larger "Cobra Kits" and not sold individually; a pair came in a package without any identification other that the universal Cobra Kit identification decal. Individual emblems were available as service parts under their C3RA-14225-A number. FoMoCo and SAI sold or supplied the C3RA-A parts in large quantities apparently, not the 100 sets a year like Cobra production, based on availability today. Another educated guess is that C3RA-A emblems started being used in 1966 Cobra 427 production as soon as the supply of S1CS-C 2" parts ran out, some unrestored 427 Cobras still wear faded C3RA-A emblems.

Dan

Dan,

After reading your posts I thought I'd throw some fuel in the fire as I have as my wallpaper an original Ford photograph, taken in 1963, of a "Ford Cobra High Performance Engine Kits" display advertising that these parts will be available soon through service for 221, 260 & 289 Fairlane and Falcon engines. The display's sign uses both the bird and crossed flags logo and the C3RA style Cobra logo. With each "kit" on display is an actual emblem which is the C3RA piece. To me it shows that the C3RA design was already in use by Ford in 1963. Also the 1965 Ford High Performance parts book printed sometime in 1964 uses the image of the C3RA emblem consistantly throughout the book and has a separate section showing the C3RA emblems and noting that they are included with spring nuts in specific Cobra kits.

If I can figure out how to post the display image I will.

Scott

Edited by - Scott302 on 08/05/2007 09:47:27

Scott302 · August 5, 2007 at 10:45 AM

Let's see if I have this right:

[Blocked Image: http://www.photodrop.com/Get.aspx?id%20e8867509-5fbe-46ad-9e77-fc7f7ff7b629 ]

I guess not (yet)

Edited by - Scott302 on 08/05/2007 10:50:15

rr64_old · August 5, 2007 at 3:39 PM

Hi Scott,

Your image didn't work. Most people can not see the difference in Mr. Brock's S1CS-C and Ford's C3RA parts because they haven't seen them side by side. The photos and sketches in all the Ford advertising I have shows the art of Mr. Brock’s S1CS-C part.

[Blocked Image: http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r187/rr64/COBRAS.jpg]

When side by side they are as different as 1966 and 1967 Mustangs might look to many people. I have been looking at these things since 1972 and trying to get one of everything since not long after that. Cobras came with the S1CS part. So far I have not found solid evidence of any 427 Cobras that did not come with the C3RA part. Cobras (leaf spring cars) were winding down in late 1964 and 427 Cobras (coil spring cars) were gearing up in early 1965.

So far I have not found any documentation on a C3RA part before late 1965. (C3RA engineering prefix means designed for a 1963 product line not made in 1963.) The 1965 dated Shelby parts list contains production parts for both leaf spring and coil spring cars. It's last update was 05/31/65 and the C3RA-14225-A version FoMoCo commissioned is not in the parts list at that time. Although SAI still had cars in inventory after 05/31/65 the last car by chassis number (CSX2588) had been sent to dealers months before. I will say unless somebody can show evidence otherwise all Cobras CSX2132 through CSX2588 originally had the S1CS-C 2" emblem. I will go further to guess any 427 Cobra race car in progress by this time originally had S1CS-C emblems, if it had emblems at all.

Dan

Edited by - rr64 on 08/05/2007 15:43:21

Scott302 · August 6, 2007 at 5:23 PM

Dan,

Without them side by side I would not have known the difference. Being so slight I doubt the image I attempted to link would prove useful. Only the artwork of the logo is clearly visible and that would be subject to the artists interpretation. The actual medallions in my photo are too small to really be certain of the details. I had to dig out current production from the OE supplier to look at them closer compared to your originals. It continues to stike me as strange that a part that was given a 1963 Ford part number would not be used until late 65 or 66. I won't even attempt to discuss AC Cobra usage as I couldn't even pretend to know the peculiarities of their production. I find this kind of research absolutely facinating. I appreciate your input and sharing your collection. <img src=images/icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

rr64_old · August 7, 2007 at 3:12 AM

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It continues to stike me as strange that a part that was given a 1963 Ford part number would not be used until late 65 or 66. <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Scott, Ford’s parting number system has confused countless people for decades. This has muddied the water on what people call original parts for Fords since the 1950s. The decade and year codes (example C3) just designate the decade and year model it was intended for. You will find “C1” parts in Fords made years later and things like “D1” Boss 302 Mustang parts for a model that didn’t make it to production. A “C2” oil pump for 1962 engine was still a good (sales number wise) for decades.

Ford got into Shelby’s operation not long after Cobra’s became hits. Everyone has heard that as Shelby’s fame and operation expanded Ford’s cost and efficiency people were sent in to find lower cost alternatives to everything they could at Shelby’s operations. This hits CSX2201-CSX2588 Cobra owners when they try to find parts for their cars and learn that very many of the parts are ones Ford sourced from its suppliers and not AC Cars anymore; and are often very different than what is on cars just a few serial numbers earlier.

It is possible that Ford did the art work design some time in 1963 but didn’t release the tooling and or parts until 1965. I can just tell you I held the first J.C. Whitney sold counterfeit in my hands circa the summer of 1971 and by the summer of 1972 I held the S1CS part shown in my picture in my hand for the first time. I have been collecting everything I can find relative to Cobra emblems ever since and the Shelby published parts catalog for the 1966 model year is the earliest “factory” documentation part number or picture wise of the C3RA design.

Part of the question is why Ford’s version got a “C3RA” prefix. I associate the letter “R” with the many dealer or owner added accessories that Ford offered in the period. I don’t recall all the code letters any more but “R” shows up on some accessories that are just that, something that could be used on any car the buyer wanted to use it on.

If anybody has anything printed by Ford or Shelby before late 1965 with mention of the "C3RA" design I sure would like to have a photo copy.

Edited by - rr64 on 08/07/2007 04:02:57

Cobra Kit Fender Insignia

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