Posts by J_Speegle_old

Quote from qballll

We are still in need of pictures of the front markings on the sway bar (the green and yellow marks) if some one can help. The hole front suspension is off and is being rebuilt.

This would not be the standard front sway bar marking for a 67 K code Mustang but do remember that this car was ordered with the very rare Comp Suspension.

Here is a picture of and example of that marking on an original car. Have seen the yellow slightly brighter on some other examples but the green has been consistent

The fuel pump will provide correct orientation

[Blocked Image: http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f49/firetrainer/yellowgreensway.jpg]

Quote from qballll

As for the engineering numbers on the rear springs the are hard to read: C7 ZA 73Z 5556AM

Again this is very hard to read and maybe wrong. A question for all does the rear spring painted or phosphate and oil?

"AM" were used on these applications I would guess that since you state they were hard to read rust is an issue on many parts of your car.

Originally they were heat treated with natural untreated bare steel clamps. The heat treating produced a very dark metal that can be reproduced by using some of the quick phosphating materials now available. But you do not want to truly phosphate the springs as it will damage the strengh.

Quote from qballll

The Kar was delivered with PB. And has what we believe is the original engine (no vin on the block but all k parts and correct date codes) The trans. is a four speed, no vin correct date again. Any other help in the restoration, thoughts insight would be greatly appreciated.

Where and when was the car assembled? the lack of VIN on either is pretty odd since this had been a practice for three years prior to 67 on one of these items and less on the other.

Thoughts/insight?

Spend allot of time doing the unibody correctly - can no stress this enough

Quote from BoS

You guys made me curious now. Have to check the

shade of red under my 67 Shelby. The underside

has never been touched (in need of any repair)

so the original primer is still there.

What car number did you get?

Quote from BoS

By the way Jeff, saw your name mentioned in a Swedish book about the 65-66 Mustang that a couple of guys from the club over there

wrote.

Yes it was kind of a surprise I helped out a little during the early years (and on bulletin boards before that) of the Internet with some questions I guess (get so many emails and phone calls) They were nice enough to bring me a copy in person to a MCA show in GA during the mid-80's they were visiting. As usual I didn't have much time to spend with them (wish I would a have) at the show..... always cars to judge and things to do

Though I can't read a word from the book the collection of pictures that collected for the book puts much of what has been published in this country to shame. Really appreciated being included in the credits

As Charles said there appears to be some use (first plant seen doing this) of batch colors even that early at Dearborn.

Quote from b9folk

Would be nice to have some sort of handheld spectrometer that could analyze the color and emissivity without cutting out chunks. Especially if it could then translate it into paint/primer mix numbers.

Think it would be too hard on the tools to pack them around to every yard I visit Also the cars are not generally in the best location to get under and the panels need to be cleaned well before hand. Spent 3 hours scrubbing the front wheelwells of a car last year in a yard. You would have thought the circus had come to town with all the workers and other customers pointing and taking notice of what some "nut" was wasting his time with

Instead on the more local jobs (and those I travel to) I provide the sample and the painters take the sample, have it analyzed and reproduced. Been working out pretty well. And since the types and brands of paints vary form state to state (what can or can not be purchased or sprayed) it takes care of those related problems

Sounds/looks like a great project. Only a handful were ordered with that suspension package. Allot of discussion on a couple of forums have taken place over the option and the biggest difference of opinion has been the wheels and hubcaps

Since it sounds like a later car the fenders could be the ones rolled at the factory as earlier ones were modified (something that Ford suggested) by the dealers when they started complaining about rubbing with the 14" wide ovals. Ford suggested the dealers use the baseball method of rolling fenders but didn't mention the method that they would be using. Best way would be to use a tool that they make that rolls the fender lip. It attaches to the wheel hub. It then rolls over the lip a little bit at a time as the tool is rotated back and forth.

During the period when you car was built it appears that Dearborn was using (as one option) batch colors (epoxy primer mixed with left over exterior colors from earlier cars) so the undercarriage colors can vary allot. Often they have a decent amount of shine but can look like an odd green or blue to an almost pure black.

"Again if there is any helpful hints or pitfalls to avoid please add your comments.

Generally the pitfalls are copying cars in magazines (which are often restored with little regard to specific plant details) Chalking seams that were not originally chalked, being too neat with the rear wheel well sound deadener, not applying the sealer on the firewall correctly and applying the front wheel well sound deadener before everything is installed

As for suspension marks,

What engine (K code?), trans, PS?, PB? They all have an effect on what the typical marks were. Did you find a buildsheet?

What are the engineering numbers from the rear springs? (only way to insure that the marks go with the springs)

Believe that the AUTOLITE Gabriels didn't get a paint daub unlike the the ones used earlier in 67

The front sway bar is likely the Green and Yellow stripes that double as orientation marks like the 67 Shelbys.

Will wait for the others until we find out how it was delivered

Hope this helps a bit

Types and where you can get paint is just one of the issues as certain types of paints are not available or legal in different parts of the country. Need to talk to the paint you will be using and they often have a brand or two they are comfortable and experianced with.

For the blue here are some different companies codes

Ford - 1905-A

R-M - A1787

Ditzler/PPG - 13075

Dupont - 4735

Originally this was a T bird color called Bright Blue Metallic (code G)

As for the red oxide there really is nothing IMHO that is right - directly from a can. And the epoxy primer/sealer will look different (flat or slightly shinny) depending how it is shot. You are looking for something slightly browner and with a bit of. shine to it to match the original look. I would post a few pictures of original colors but with cameras and different monitors they would look differently over each of our monitors. To this point I now collect samples (cut them off) donor cars to catalog the finishes for just this purpose

Remember the preparation and finishing of the unibody is likely the most important step of the whole restoration. How it turns out determines you choices in the future. Everything else is bolt on after this.

So get the colors and finishes right, as well as the sealers, sound deadeners and overspray. And don't copy what you see in the magazines !!!!!!

Hope this helps.... BTW which 66 are you doing? I've got #1203 currently.

Quote from round2K

Nice going Jeff; add fuel to the fire for those of us who are obsessive. Now I'm going to be crawling all over the thing poking holes in the chassis because not knowing the original primer color actually has been bugging me. The PO media blasted my car inside & out. Where do you think the most likely spot would be for original undercarriage color to survive?

Your welcome.

In any case I would bet your car is one of the muddy slightly shinny reddish epoxy primer cars like 98% of the early San Jose cars.

Best place .... depends on the car but over the trans is often the best spot, in front of the rearend - high up- especially if the rear end leaked.

Got to be careful on using what is used in the front of rear wheelwells as some of the plants (depending on year) used different colored primers in these locations than under the car.

Makes the search fun

"The help that we are looking for this month would be details of a Dearborn 67' chassis color or type of primer used. Details of markings on the underside and fenders. "

Sorry but I don't understand. You stated that you took allot of pictures when you took the car apart, but you didn't find the original floor color?

The type of "primer" was a epoxy primer sealer

As for the details and the color we need to know when the car was built at Dearborn.

Depends on allot of details. Original engine and trans with VIN's. Original color. Condition and how complete are often the typical places to start.

The 428CJ site might be a better place to ask the question

http://www.428cobrajet.org/forum/index.php

Quote from RPM

This is kinda off the beaten path but I noticed your floor is painted black and wondered why?Isn't the bottom side of 65 Mustang suppose to be red oxide primered?

Dave has answered for his particular car but the color of the undercarriages depended on when and where the car was built. For example it appears to be an approx 6 week period (during Jan 65) at San Jose where black was used instead of the typical red oxide color. Other variations have been documented at Dearborn

Quote from Qman

I've noticed that on some 67 k codes the red oxide primer on the underside of the car is somewhat shiny while other cars have a more dull finish. Does anyone know the actual color formula for a 67 Dearborn k code and where it can be purchased? Thanks, Qman

The epoxy primers normally had a decent shine to them originally - not a gloss but no where as flat as you see them on some "restored" cars.

The color and tint would depend on when and where your car was built and one of the biggest mistakes is using a car or details from a different year, plant or time period than your car.

IS you car so far gone as to not have any good samples of the original undercarriage color left? I've gone to collecting samples of the floors (cutting the metal and saving it) since pictures are often "off" in their tone or saturation.

If you can find a sample take the time to copy and get it right (took 25+ attempts for me to get one right before all the computer tools came along) you'll likely never get a chance to redo the unibody and cutting corners here only limits what you can do with the car later. Remember, everything after this is bolt on

Unfortunately MCA "allows" an owner to choose. This leads allot of owners to do their own thing rather than restoring their car and in turn effects what others choose. A never ending circle

Quote from Engineer

What kind of difference do you see between the engine build date and the build date of your kar?

The challenge here will be that we know that that date can be off as much as three weeks. Unfortunately this makes that date almost IMHO no value. Wish we have access (like the later guys) to the real dates

Quote from SixT5HiPo

It's worth considering that 289 HiPo production probably did not follow the typical timelines of standard 289's very closely. ...

Just to continue the conversation Why would the time line for block casting be any different since they are the same block?

Quote from jwc66k

Keep in mind that fresh cast Ford blocks were 'tossed' out into the open to weather for a month or two before machining. This aging feature is a normal practice for cast iron products.

Not sure how "normal" this is ... from collections of casting and assembly dates it appears that this was not always "normal"

"Assembly date code is definatley 5J3. So the block sat around for a couple of months before being assembled - is that unusual?"

Not really for a 289... with all the volume they were experiancing. Remember that they did not take the blocks from one point (casting, machining, assembly) in any particular order.

Quote

............... i even found a very large letter "Z" and a couple of other stray markings on the outside of the core support on the driver side, right below the hood bumper, anyone ever seen something like that?

Thought this is not typical (when compared to Dearborn early cars - yes we have decent preserved versions of those too you can find (sometimes) the exterior and interior codes in the location you described. These were under the black paint so seeing them on a restored car over the black paint could lead to a deduction

Also keep your eyes out for the typical "D" in one of three or four typical locations depending on what shift assembled the car.

As for the "X" - ONLY!!! on the 65-67 San Jose cars on the DRIVERS SIDE ONLY. Don't copy what others are doing as people are starting to loss points for badly done or just bad marks at shows and the learnign curve catches up

Enough gloating .....

Weather has turned cool so off the the yards again tomorrow. Should be a good day normally get 300 plus pictures on a slow day.

From your description it looks like your missing a couple of numbers and the typical dash between the sets. As it has been explained the numbers identified the hook where the matching fenders were hanging for that particular car (a San Jose thing in 64-6)

This was a revolving set of hooks so you will see the pattern and the numbers repeat themselves if you saw enough examples

Quote from KBOB

The car was built in Feb 1965 at the San Jose plant.

I have that hole by the acc linkage but I also have one that is higher up.

OK not an easy area to get a picture of ... here is one (red arrow shows the entry point of the cable) of a spring 65 San Jose car

Hope it helps

[Blocked Image: http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f49/firetrainer/Spring65SanJosechokecablehole.jpg]

What year and plant?

BoS

Got a couple of those and at least one Magazine car with no AUTOLITE decal. That one in addition to the parking lot shots and Killians original car all with no rectangle or curved decal

Did you notice on the one picture (believe it is your #2 where the heater hose clamps had been changed out for worm gear. Typical for the time and one of those details that got changed as I mentioned.

Quote from BoS

All magazines from 1965 showing 65 Shelbys have a straight

decal. Original pictures from Shelby cars made in the end of March 65

have the straight ones.

Typically magazine pictures don't provide very solid reference points IMHO

Cars were typically played with or prepped

BTW how did you determine the magazine car was built in March?

IS this Mark's car (often used for many of the pictures?