Posts by bobmannel

Good information. Keep it coming....

That is a casting number. There is a stamped number on the block deck surface, all the way forward on the left side. It is right on top of the left water entry hole in the block. See if you can read those numbers. It tells you when the engine was actually assembled.

The 1965 P/S pump was black. When I looked at paint chips trying to match the original color of the 66 and later pump, I thought "1977 Buick Blue F/M (Factory Match" was a good color. I never actually got some of the paint and tested to see if it was as good when sprayed.

It is a 1966-67 Mustang 289 HiPo manual transmission (4-speed) without thermactor (smog control). Value would be high.

Terms must be defined. There really is no such thing as a 28 ounce flywheel or a 50 ounce flywheel, etc. It is meaningless except as a label. With imbalance you are dealing with a torque. Torques are applied forces at a distance from the center of rotation. For our engines, you are dealing with ounce-inches, abreviated as oz. in. or oz-in. One ounce inch (oz-in) means that there is a one ounce force applied tangentially at one inch from the centerline. When we say there is a 30.4 oz-in imbalance on the flywheel, it means that there is a 30.4 ounce force applied at one inch from the center line (30.4 x 1 = 30.4). This is identical to a 15.2 ounce force applied at 2 inches (15.2 x 2 = 30.4), or a 7.6 ounce force at 4 inches (7.6 x 4 = 30.4). In the case of the flywheel, the weight is spread throughout a trapazoid-shaped cast-in weight at various distance from the centerline, but when summed up, equals 30.4 oz-in. In short, there is a 30.4 ounce tangential force at 1 inch trying to turn the flywheel when the flywheel counterweight is at the 3 or 9 o'clock position.

For example, if you had the flywheel mounted on a free-turning shaft (shaft and flywheel centerline perfectly matched), and positioned the flywheel weight at 3 or 9 o'clock, then measured with a scale the force the flywheel would apply as it attempts to rotate so that the heavy side is down and you resisted the flywheel at a point that was 5 inches from the centerline, the scale would read 6.08 ounces. The torque would be 6.08 x 5 = 30.4 oz-in.

Determining the transition from round top to flat top air cleaners is difficult. I believe the round tops made it into 65 production, but I don't know for how long. This would be a good topic to get input on from original owners. Perhaps we can nail down the month.

I think that is a 6-cylinder starter motor, but the markings and coloring the V8 are essentially the same.

You are talking about two different subjects. The engine tag has nothing to do with the carburetor stamping. The 65 Mustang HiPo engine tag number was 554. There was a suffix, but Ford never listed it unless it was necessary to distingish between two different engines. Best to use the data from someone else's engine tag for the suffix. J was a common letter, but I don't know if there were others. Good place for other owners to chime in with their engine tag data. On the bottom left of the tag is the date code. Should be something like 5-G if your Mustang was built in July 1965

The Carburetor stamping Jon used was probably C5OF-J which was a 65 Mustang with PCV valve. The J in this case has nothing to do with a date. It is just a sequence letter for identification purposes. Only the carburetor tag carried a date code. Yours would be something like 5GB, if the second week in July 1965. The last letter could be A, B, C, D, or E for 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, or 5th week of the month, respectively.

C3OE blocks are late 63 production 221 or 260 V8s. The C3AE-6015-N block with heavy duty main caps and a sequential number is definitely a HiPo block. For decades the incorrect HiPo block casting numbers have been published and repeated. Now it is hard to convince people those numbers have been wrong all along. Your mechanic should not be faulted, unless he is adamant about is incorrect information.

1664 is close to the 1685 I have which was assembled 3H26. Next early one is 1443 dated 3F24 (late 63 production). Around 1500 was the 63 to 64 transition.

Your 1247 has an assembly date code of 3E14, or a casting number of 3E14?

Nearest one I know of is 1685, engine assembly date of 3H26.

Remember that the counterweight is not a cosmetic piece. It is a balancing piece for high rpm operation. I have examined a couple reproduction pieces and none were exact matches to the original. Be careful what you buy.

I will see if the seller will get some detailed pictures for us before it sells. It looks like an early piece. The lower tray has the nipple for the choke heat. This was not used on the HiPos and dicontinued by 1964 production, although Ford prototype pictures showed the nipple being used. The decals for Autolite spark plugs and use FoMoCo parts look correct, but I want to see about the High Performance decal. It might have been added later. Generally, I have not seen these decals until the 1965 production year.

From just the picture, it is difficult to say what it is. There is just not enough detail. Oil fillers in the timing chain cover were on 221, 260, 289, and 289 HiPos -- anything used in 1963 production and road draft tube cars late in 1964 production. This engine has obviously been modified from production for a specific application.

Higher volume pumps often mean higher pressure pumps. The higher pressure could put a strain on the front freeze plugs. A well assembled engine will maintain 55-60 psi at the main bearings with a stock oil pump. Ford thought that was good, even for the HiPo.

My guess is that the numbers were far less important to Carter than they are to us, and that the numbers given to Ford were snap shots. I would have imagined that Carter made the pumps in batches and the numbers had significance internally on tracking parts and reliability.

What seems to be important is the orientation of the inlet. The 1561, 1576, and 1600 castings orient the inlet about 15° off centerline. The 1658 castings gives about 35°. Separating the two is the model year change from 1963 to 1964, which was around August 1963.

In the list of pumps, we have a good separation between pumps before "H" (August) being 1561, 1576, and 1600 castings. H and later are 1658. There are three pumps out of that sequence. They were 1576 pumps with dates of J3 and L3. They even use the earlier stamped codes. My thought is that these could be service replacements. They are clearly configured as 1963 production pumps, but were made after 1964 production began.

For those of us who remember the 1960s, fuel pump failures were fairly common. I always carried a spare fuel pump and had to replace one of two different occasions. In fact, I was so disgusted that the next one I bought was brand new. It failed after 50 miles from a broken diaphragm rod! In later years, the problem went away and we were getting good pumps that did not fail. In the 1980s and 1990s of daily driving, I never had a fuel pump failure, but these were different pumps from those of the 1960s.

Dan, I have the following:

O-1561 3568S J 6-2 (Sept. 62)

O-1561 3568S 4-1 K (Oct. 62)

O-1600 3623S F3

O-1658 3732S A4

O-1658 3734S L3

O-1658 3734S C4

O-1658 (no number) H-8 Ford service replacement

O-1561 (#3568S) is 1963 production (221 & 260) until about 10-31-62. It does not have the X on the tower. Outlet is about 15° clockwise from centerline. Closest screw hole between lower and upper body about 1/8" clockwise from centerline.

O-1600 (#3623S) is 1963 production after 10-31-62 (221, 260, 289, 289 HiPo). It has the X on the tower (with improved design to reduce pump noise). Outlet is about 15° clockwise from centerline. Closest screw hole between lower and upper body about 1/8" clockwise from centerline. (Essentially the same as the O-1561 pump with improved design.)

O-1658 (#3732S and #3634S) is 1964 production (260, 289, 289 HiPo). Outlet is about 35° clockwise from centerline. Closest screw hole between lower and upper body about 3/8" counter clockwise from centerline.

By-the-way, I would love to trade or buy your O-1600 3623S C3 or D3 fuel pump. I have a 1963 Fairlane 289 HiPo assembled on 3D9 and would like to rebuild a date-correct fuel pump for it.

The MPC only list a 3909 (352/390), 3910 (390), 3911 (289) and 3939 (289 HiPo). I am not convinced that Ford listed all the numbers. Also, make sure it is not a big block fuel pump. The levers are very similar, but not the same.

Yes.

The B3 tells you it was for an early HiPo. Shelby was getting engines at this time and probably had them fully degreed. On the Fairlanes they were not.