Posts by Dan Case

    You might want to determine what version of parts you have before doing anything. The original 1964 model year covers were made as production parts for new Cobras. The assemblies Cobras used are rare as loose parts and extremely rare in never damaged or media blasted condition. I have been looking for a PCV side cover since 2005 that is totally unmolested. The covers were sold by Ford as accessories for other 1964 Fords but it must not have been a popular purchase. Circa January 1965 more than one of wooden master patterns started being used and before new 1966 MUSTANG GT350s changed to using the new die cast covers other production revisions happened.

    Hey gents I’ve got a set of buddy bar open letter valve covers that I want to restore, they have been painted on etc…I do not want to ruin the value of these things so I am going to ask if anyone has done this and if you can give any pointers. I was planning on sand blasting then polishing the fins however after reading on a blog I noted someone more schooled than I mentioned one of the ways to tell a re-pop from authentic is the re-pop is too polished. So I guess what I am looking for here will blasting the aluminum or polishing the fins hurt the value? If it’s ok to blast should I put anything on the raw aluminum to protect it and how polished we’re the fins after manufacture…will just a light sanding and hand buffing work or does it require polishing on a buffing wheel. Thanks for any info :)

    Originally all the sand cast 1963-66 “COBRA POWERED BY FORD” rocker arm covers and oil pans for Cobras and Mustangs were chemically polished on the inside while the outside was a very fine matt finish and all the tops of raised features were highly (almost mirror) polished. The exteriors were also treated with some type sealer to help fill micro pores in the exteriors and retard corrosion.


    I would not recommend glass bead blasting any engine part surface that is open to interior of the engine. Some beads break during blasting and microscopic shards of glass stick into the metal. The tiny pieces of glass will over time fall free and get into the engine lubrication system. The affect is like putting grit in the engine on purpose. Sand blasting with silica sand is worse. Inside surfaces can be media blasted with dry ice, metal shot, or something softer like walnut shell or baking soda media. Dry ice blasting is the only media blasting method that makes zero changes to the surfaces being cleaned but service providers are few and far in between.


    Assuming a casting has not yet been media blasted by anybody, any hard media blasting has the potential to make the parts less desirable for top end restorations now or later. (I once followed a thread as somebody took a $3,000 Cobra part and turned it into a $600 Cobra part after a few minutes of glass bead blasting.)


    Exterior wise, the oil fill tube and brackets for spark plug wire loom clips have to be removed to do a great job on the exteriors of the castings. The baffle on the oil fill side has to come out to remove and replace the fill tube carefully. That is also the time to do any metal work repairs to the steel parts and get them replated. Some shops discard the original steel parts and install new reproductions. New rivets have to be purchased. A lot of people will not care but high end customers probably don’t want reproduction bits you can see on the covers.


    I am working on some aluminum cast parts that originally had a very fine matt finish like the rocker arm covers in question. I bought a small bench top cabinet and have been experimenting with different size grades of aluminum oxide ‘grit’ and different air pressures to recreate the 1960s matt texture. Small test samples look very promising. I will do more testing on scrap before an ultra rare part gets done.


    Top restorers use all kinds of chemicals and protectants to seal the pores on the exterior of aluminum and magnesium castings as a last step. I have heard of WD40®, LPS3®, Gibbs Oil®, Boshield T9®, and others being used and people being happy with the results. Gibbs Oil is widely used to help seal magnesium part surfaces (works best for me).

    "NOS" means "new old stock" never used never installed to most old car fans. This intake shown in the auction offering pictures has been installed and shows the evidence of water corrosion on the exit port faces as if the user did not include a corrosion inhibitor or anti-freeze that contained corrosion inhibitors.

    PS In the Cobra roadster option or the Ford over the counter accessory the intakes are the easiest parts to find and the lowest cost major part. Example: A matched pair of original air cleaners might cost in the four digit range as cores that could be restored.

    I just tried sending a test message two ways through the site, one as a "Comment" under your profile page and one as a linked email.

    Hi Dan, i think there is a large error in your profile printed under the picture of your cobra ,it says ( student) there is no way you are a student in regards to what is talked about and information about any area here on the site , you and Fred are the most knowledgeable guys around, thanks for sharing , regards, chuck.

    Thanks but I have no idea how that came to be. Everything was blank on the edit profile page.

    Short version.


    All the 260 c.i.d. engine low rise aluminum 4Vdual plane intake manifolds were functionally copies of a Ford engineering prototype cast iron intake manifold from the 1961 time frame. Ford did not release 260 engines to the public until announced as available for order February 17, 1962 as part of the 1962½ Fairlane Sport Coupe option package. There was not just one cast iron prototype intake manifold but only one became the pattern Holman-Moody (H-M), a Ford performance contractor, picked up on. Holman-Moody was the source of all the 260 aluminum intake manifolds.


    Lee Holman is said to have stated that something in aluminum with a cast in Ford Motor Company style engineering number was desired for the Ford Falcons they prepared for racing, mostly in Europe. The original design carried a late 1950s Holman-Moody bird shaped logo cast in raised relief and a Holman-Moody engineering number also in raised relief in the form of prefix and base number as if it were a production Ford part.


    Then Cobras with XHP-260 and HP260 engines were introduced and Shelby American (SA) very quickly adopted the H-M intake. It became a 260 powered COBRA regular production option for street and race cars but SA milled the H-M bird logo off. By the time 1963½ HP289 engines were being installed in new Cobras the wooden master pattern for the H-M intake was changed to replace the H-M bird logo with very large text spelling COBRA and a Shelby-Ford engineering number was added to the casting while retaining the H-M engineering number. SA offered the COBRA lettered intake to Cobra buyers into the CSX24xx chassis range in mid 1964. It was a poor choice for an owner of a car with a 289 c.i.d. engine. The low rise aluminum 4V intake was not a popular option. On a handful of Cobras were ordered new with any version. SA offered milled H-M and COBRA text versions over the counter but apparently few were sold. (I have seen five [5] COBRA intakes total ever. Three were in poor physical condition, one really nice one I restored decades ago was destroyed in a fire in 2017, and I just sold a near mint used one to the owner of a very early Cobra that still has its original 260 c.i.d. engine. (The one I that I just shipped off less than a week ago was the best of those I have ever come across condition wise, no corrosion, physical damage, or modifications.)


    There was a brief period in 1963 that some low rise intakes were made with a large raised rectangular pad was cast in place of a logo or brand lettering. The only clue as to why there was a large pad there was a artistic representation of an intake with a COBRA water slide transfer as used on Shelby race team Cobra covers used in a rare very early accessory parts advertisement SA placed in magazines.


    When Sunbeam Tigers were introduced the wooden master was changes again to create TIGER lettered castings. The part was an over the counter accessory offering, like all the aluminum intakes for Tigers would be I believe. When the wooden master was changed to the TIGER lettering the H-M engineering number was removed leaving the Sunbeam Tiger accessory option with a Ford-Shelby engineering number for a Cobra part. I personally have only located two (2) of the TIGER lettered low rise version. It was not popular. The low rise intake was superseded by a TIGER lettered high rise intake exactly like early 1965 MUSTANG GT350 intakes except for the lettering. The high rise Tiger casting sourced through Ford-Shelby was quickly dropped and replaced by the early four hole flange Edelbrock® F4B™ 289 c.i.d. engine intake manifold as an over the counter accessory. I personally have located one (1) intact TIGER lettered high rise intake manifold.


    Lee Holman was quoted as saying that only about one hundred (100) low rise aluminum intake manifolds were ever cast and that most ended up going into marine engines. Demand for an intake obsolete automotive wise before it got started in was just not there. I have seen maybe two dozen low rise aluminum intakes over the years. A few still had the H-M bird logo, the small number of COBRA lettered ones, the two TIGER lettered ones, and a couple of parts with large raised pad were the only intact intakes I have come across. All the others had whatever was cast into the top front runner milled off before use and or sale.


    For the most part, unless you are one that happens to have a Cobra that was ordered new with one of the low rise intakes and that car is very original, there is almost zero market for one unless it is COBRA or TIGER lettered and in a condition ready to install on show car. Being intact and great condition still does not mean easy to find a new home for. I just a few days ago shipped off the excellent COBRA intake for less than I had in it. I have tried on an off to find it a new home since 2002, on the order of 19 years to find a new home.


    Note: Ford/H-M/Shelby did not just toss obsolete intakes in the scrap bin. Known obsolete intakes with logos milled off before or after retail sale included the H-M bird logo low rise, COBRA low rise, TIGER low rise, very early COBRA high rise, and TIGER high rise.

    PS In this century very few people are interested building 260 engines with 1961-62 performance; i.e. the intake was designed in 1961 in terms of what high performance was at the time. It was obsolete as soon as 289 engines came out as far as performance and racing were concerned.

    I believe it was a TIGER lettered intake that had the lettering milled off. The entire start to finish description of this family of intakes is quite long.

    Performance wise suitable for a mild 260 c.I.d. engine.

    The part’s value greatly decreased when the text was milled off.

    You are welcome. I think I got it straight. Bob Mannel furnished a lot of information beyond what he has published. My question is why did the stepped bore change get implemented. I can only guess that some other planned engine using that part had a carburetor with larger primary throttle plates than a 1.12 size Ford 4100-A carburetor and the step let the larger blades pass maybe.

    Anybody out there know for sure?

    Technically there is only one HP289 only spacer.

    Part number C3OZ-9A589-B was the original 289 4V spacer which was unique to 1963½ and early 1964 model year HP289 engines. The raw casting was marked with cast in raised text C3OE-9A589-E. A Ford Master Parts Catalog stated it was used in the 1963 Fairlane and 1964 Fairlane engine assemblies before 2-17-64. Also used in Cobras with those same engine revision levels and engine assembly dates. Note that means date of engine assembly and not date of vehicle assembly. That is the only High Performance 289 engine only part.

    Otherwise, what I think is correct:

    Ford Engine Assembly Plant / 289 Engines Wise:

    The spacer marked C3OE-9A589-E, with straight bores, March week one 1963 until before 02-17-64. HP289 only during the 1963½ model run.

    The spacer marked C4OE-9A589-A, with straight bores, used from 02-17-64 and up to 07-13-64. All 4V.

    The spacer marked C4OE-9A589-E, with stepped or counter bored primary bores, used after 07-13-64 to around March 1965. All 4V.

    The spacer marked C4OE-9A589-F, with stepped or counter bored primary bores, is good from about 05-25-64 until end of model year for 4V engines with road draft tubes – no Cobras).

    The spacer marked C4OE-9A589-? is good from about March 1965 through 1967 production. All 4V. This one is confusing because some sources say C4OE-A marked parts and others say C4OE-E marked parts.

    Two newer post production versions, one marked C4OE-9A589-A and one marked C4OE-9A589-E with new tooling, were released and are very common as service parts . Side by side comparison with the parts made in 1964-65 shows multiple differences.

    The 1963½-67 issues I am aware of were machined smooth and flat on their top surfaces. The later parts were die cast to net thickness without machining and the surface has a complicated raised pattern of ridges presumed to be aimed at better sealing of the carburetor base.

    I have read for many years that using a 1.12 size 4100-A Ford carburetor on a small displacement V8 was not satisfactory for most who tried. The usual commentary wonders why factory HP289 engines did so well with such a large carburetor. It is only recently that a few of us have started documenting what we find in vacuum secondary control systems, yes control, in various assemblies. Failing to find any significantly detailed Ford engineering information, even in Bob Mannel’s library, we are recording what we find. No surprise really but many carburetors that have ever been apart before are not just as they would have been manufactured anymore.


    Stepping back a little, I have known since the 1970s that Holley® carburetors with vacuum secondaries used a control scheme to tailor secondary how much air flow through the primaries was required to trigger cracking the secondary throttle open, control how fast the secondaries opened, and control how much the secondaries would open in a given application. For a given engine size, Holley could have one “size” carburetor assembly crack open secondaries around 1,400 rpm and be fully open at 5,000 rpm and do another the same “size” that would not start cracking until around 2,400 rpm and never get fully open. That is the “shelf sizing” of vacuum secondaries you will read about, not really by itself until built that way. What Holley meant was something like an out of the box R-1850-1 will open differently between something like a 260 engine and a 430 engine.


    As it turns out Ford 4100 and 4100-A models were created with the same types of devices to control how the secondary throttles worked. Holley published their parts and methods while Ford just skimmed past them in training manuals and the Master Parts Catalogs. Holley published how what parts do what while Ford hinted in obscure publications most vehicle owners would never seen. As it turns out Ford carburetors are adjustable too. A 1.12 size unit factory calibrated for engine X might flop the secondaries open super early on a 289 engine, while one calibrated for engine Y might never start opening the secondary. A sudden snap open at mid rpm and low road speed would make horrible driving manners for a 289 engine. Never opening negates having a 4V unit.


    Our calibrated parts study is young. We are gathering up shared information, what Mr. Mannel had, and what I have found in Ford dealer and service information Ford used these features alone or in combination to control when, how fast, and how far secondaries operated. In the vacuum system circuit:


    One, or two in later years for some large engine models, vacuum pick up source tubes. Models with a tube rely only on air flow through the primary side to create a vacuum signal to open the secondary. Models with two tubes delay secondary start up and once the secondary starts flowing both tubes supply signal to finish opening the secondaries at a faster rate near the end of travel. (Holley did the same thing in 1965-67 MUSTANG GT350 carburetors. R-3259, R-3259A, and R-3259AAS assemblies 1964-1965 had a single vacuum pick up while R-3259-1A and R-3259-1AAS models 1965-67 used two pick up points split between primary and secondary.)


    Size of a calibrated orifice machined into the passage or size of the calibrated brass orifice pressed into the passage.


    Include a 1/8” check ball or not.


    Include a bronze coil compression spring with the check ball or not.


    Depending on calibrated orifice diameter and use with or without a check ball the secondary opening characteristics will be vastly different. You would not want the secondaries of a 1.12 size carburetor to open quickly and or all the way on a small V8 unless hard acceleration is what you wanted to do.


    I recently prepared a 1.12 size C4OF-AL HP289 carburetor for our black car. It was missing the check ball. I have a method of bench testing vacuum secondary carburetors before installation. For a 289/302 application I want the secondaries to open smoothly at a constant smooth rate in about three seconds of testing. Without the check ball the secondaries snapped open instantly. With a new ball installed opening was just under three seconds. That should be fine as the Holley model I took off had been tuned to open in right at three seconds. (The R-3259-1AAS was installed for a prior owner by his local Shelby dealer in the 1960s. The dealer ordered and installed a COBRA 4V induction kit. In the 1980s I tuned it to give world class performance under a wide range of conditions and fuels, street and track, around 600 to 700 feet above sea level. That development program is where I came up with my three seconds number from. I have tuned quite a few R-3259 family carburetors for GT350s and Cobras over the years and that three seconds number has been good for them all. I have done a few Ford C3OF-AJs for HP289s also. I will be testing the C4OF-AL this summer as the Holley seems a tad sluggish at low rpm were we live now at 5,400 feet above sea level. The smaller bores Ford carburetor should have more air flow speed through it at any given rpm and provide a little crisper tip in around town. We will find out. I have the Holley overhauled and ready to reinstall at some point in time.)

    We are using a Shelby American 1964 race shop 4-2V induction system in our red car. Moving from 600-700 feet above sea level to 5,400 feet above sea level required resizing the carburetors, which is easy with 48 IDAs. As we moved there was not enough air mass to ever get the main systems started under 5,000 plus engine rpm. We had to change air bleeds and fuel jets also but with smaller chokes the main systems work properly at 20 something mph in fourth gear.

    In choosing a carburetor "size" keep in mind how altitude affects naturally aspirated (carburetor(s) based induction systems) engines.

    Dan

    Here is an Ebay auction for a used FoMoCo Weber intake manifold by Ebay member "super-novass" with a starting bid of $9.99:

    This is a vintage intake manifold that accepts four Weber downdraft carburetors such as 48IDA models. This intake fits Small Block Ford 260, 289, and 302 engines. This intake came out of an estate so I do not have any history on it. It has multiple casting numbers on it as shown in the pictures that include, "C4OZ-6B068-C", "FCA 1073 2", "S1CR 9423", and "RONWILL". I believe the C40Z-6B068-C is a Ford part number. A quick Google search shows this number as the Ford 4 Weber intake system first offered in 1964. I believe the "S1CR-9423" is a Shelby number. The "RONWILL" is likely the manufacturer that cast the intake. The FCA 1073 2 is a mystery to me. I have not been able to find another example of this intake online. I have seen others similar to it but none with a provision to accept a thermostat housing. Other have two coolant nipples coming out of the front in leau of the thermostat housing provision. I believe this to be a very rare factory prototype or one off design for a factory connected racer. This must have cost a lot to engineer and cast so it must have been done for a special and connected person/team. Don't miss this awesome intake.
    This intake is in awesome original condition as shown. It does not appear to have ever been used or installed. It was quite dirty when found from decades on a shelf. I used plastic media at low pressure to remove the dirt and debris without altering the original finish. There are no breaks, modifications, or repairs to this intake. All threads are mint with no helicoils or thread inserts. There is no pitting or other corrosion issues. There is also no porting or any other issues. The casting is very old and surprisingly heavy. You can be fairly certain you will never see another one of these. Don't miss this amazing intake!
    The last picture is from is from the 1964 Ford manual, "Ford Performance Tips From AK Miller". I posted this simply to show that Ford made a Weber Kit for the Small Block Ford that carried the same part number that is cast into this intake. The catalog can be found online and is not included in this listing.
    This is your chance to own the Small Block Ford intake for Weber downdraft carbs you have been dreaming about at NO RESERVE! That's right, the high bidder on this intake at auction end will be the proud new owner. Don't Miss Out!
    Check out my other listings for more rare and hard to find parts.

    Small Block Ford Weber Intake Manifold C4OZ-6B068-C Shelby Mustang Cobra GT-40 | eBay

    -Fred-

    This used FoMoCo Weber intake manifold sold February 28, 2021 on Ebay for $1,237.12 with 38 bids from 20 bidders.

    -Fred-

    There is a Ronwill Speed Ab company in Sweden that has a speed shop and Ford rally racing business.

    Here is an Ebay auction for a used FoMoCo Weber intake manifold by Ebay member "super-novass" with a starting bid of $9.99:

    This is a vintage intake manifold that accepts four Weber downdraft carburetors such as 48IDA models. This intake fits Small Block Ford 260, 289, and 302 engines. This intake came out of an estate so I do not have any history on it. It has multiple casting numbers on it as shown in the pictures that include, "C4OZ-6B068-C", "FCA 1073 2", "S1CR 9423", and "RONWILL". I believe the C40Z-6B068-C is a Ford part number. A quick Google search shows this number as the Ford 4 Weber intake system first offered in 1964. I believe the "S1CR-9423" is a Shelby number. The "RONWILL" is likely the manufacturer that cast the intake. The FCA 1073 2 is a mystery to me. I have not been able to find another example of this intake online. I have seen others similar to it but none with a provision to accept a thermostat housing. Other have two coolant nipples coming out of the front in leau of the thermostat housing provision. I believe this to be a very rare factory prototype or one off design for a factory connected racer. This must have cost a lot to engineer and cast so it must have been done for a special and connected person/team. Don't miss this awesome intake.
    This intake is in awesome original condition as shown. It does not appear to have ever been used or installed. It was quite dirty when found from decades on a shelf. I used plastic media at low pressure to remove the dirt and debris without altering the original finish. There are no breaks, modifications, or repairs to this intake. All threads are mint with no helicoils or thread inserts. There is no pitting or other corrosion issues. There is also no porting or any other issues. The casting is very old and surprisingly heavy. You can be fairly certain you will never see another one of these. Don't miss this amazing intake!
    The last picture is from is from the 1964 Ford manual, "Ford Performance Tips From AK Miller". I posted this simply to show that Ford made a Weber Kit for the Small Block Ford that carried the same part number that is cast into this intake. The catalog can be found online and is not included in this listing.
    This is your chance to own the Small Block Ford intake for Weber downdraft carbs you have been dreaming about at NO RESERVE! That's right, the high bidder on this intake at auction end will be the proud new owner. Don't Miss Out!
    Check out my other listings for more rare and hard to find parts.

    Small Block Ford Weber Intake Manifold C4OZ-6B068-C Shelby Mustang Cobra GT-40 | eBay

    -Fred-

    I don't know who made this intake or why or when but it is not a anything I ever knew about from Ford or Shelby in the 1960s. I have pictures of many versions of Ford and Shelby prototype and production intakes 1962-70 and none are remotely like the one offered.


    The numbers cast into it are Ford Motor Company and Shelby American sales numbers for induction kits (intakes, linkages, carburetors, gaskets, and tuning manual) and not engineering numbers for factory intake castings. The C4OZ-C number is the Ford number for the kit using 48 IDM1/IDM5 carburetors sold over the counter listed at over $1,200 retail in 1963 through early 1964.

    This is most of an unrestored C4OZ-6B068-C Ford Motor Company kit. It is missing all the linkage system required to install on an engine and the water neck and fuel log assembly.

    The content cannot be displayed because you do not have authorisation to view this content.

    The S1CR number is a Shelby American number for a kit with 48 IDA/IDA1 carburetors mid 1964 through early 1967.

    This is a 99% complete unrestored S1CR-9423 Shelby American kit.

    The content cannot be displayed because you do not have authorisation to view this content.


    I read questions about whether or not Ford offered 260/289 c.i.d. 4-2V "Weber" induction systems for new Fords in the 1960s. Specifically some folks ask about Mustangs. The short answers are:

    - No. 4-2V systems were not offered for new street cars factory installed EXCEPT Cobras and GT40s (only one new street Cobra was ordered and completed).

    - Yes. Selected new Ford and Lincoln-Mercury competition only cars could be ordered with "Webers". At least one new 1965 MUSTANG GT350 competition car was so fitted for a customer in South America.

    - Yes. Anybody could order kits through their local Ford / L-M dealer for any 260/289 powered Ford and have the dealer install it (or install it themselves). Ford used a Fairlane picture in advertising of systems.


    This is the collection of kit data I have.

    Carburetor(s) Used Ford Kit Number Suggested Retail Price / Year

    48 IDM1 first then 48 IDM5 C4OZ-6B068-C $1,230.70 / 1963 early

    48 IDM5 C4OZ-6B068-C $1,000 / 1963 late to early 1964

    48 IDA or 48 IDA1 C5OZ-6B068-A $695.00 / 1964 mid

    48 IDA or 48 IDA1 C5OZ-6B068-A $595.00 / 1964 late to 1965

    48 IDA or 48 IDA1 S1CR-9423 (new intake design) $595.00 / 1964 through 1967

    48 IDA1 S7WK-9423 $595.00 / 1967 (COUGAR lettered intake)


    To give you some perspective. A well optioned VW(R) Beetle in 1963 was around $1,500 retail I think.

    Exact designs of linkage and other ancillaries changed over time. Linkage systems started off being very complicated with lots of intricate small parts. The steel levers required were hand fabricated by Shelby American race shop employees as required. The S1CR-9423 system was a significant redesign with simple linkage system comprised of mass produced parts sourced mainly from Eelco(R)and Hilborn (R). By 1965 the systems of the day could be purchased through Ford dealers, Shelby's parts department, or Dean Moon's businesses.

    Do you have any idea what material the reproductions were made of? Originals were not cast iron. Originals were made in SAE 1030 steel.

    Ford wise there were several "COBRA" versions for Cobras (five bolt engines), Sunbeam Tigers marked "TIGER", six bolt 289 engines marked "COBRA", 427 Cobras marked "COBRA", a five bolt 260/289 "WEDGE" marked one for Cyclone's own markets, and a two piece "WEDGE M/T" marked assembly Mickey Thompson offered for five bolt 260/289 engines.

    The content cannot be displayed because you do not have authorisation to view this content.

    Just as an example, a group of HP289 engines were assembled August 25-26, 1964 that were built with G4 dated harmonic balancers. One engine that had never apart had a 4H6 casting date intake manifold. More than one in the lot had August 1964 cast timing covers. Distributors were assembled 4GB and 4HB.


    In September this engine was assembled: Assembly date 4J15, the intake was cast 4J4, the dizzy assembled 4HB, block cast 4H16, head castings poured 4G21, and the balancer was dated G4.

    You are welcome, that was the 1964 Fairlane engine model year closure that ended engine serial numbers. Bob Mannel's last known assembly date published for a numbered five bolt engine was in early July 1964.

    1965 model year six bolt engine assembly replaced them as the new product. 221/260/289 engines, which were made in Cleveland were all referenced as Fairlane engines. Even early Shelby advertising and magazines called engines in Cobras Fairlane engines. (Tip: Calling them Windsor engines is a technical and historical mistake.)

    I have seen pictures of a five bolt service replacement engine with an assembly date in 1971. That makes sense to me because Ford had to be able to supply some type service replacement for ten years after production ended. I bought some "new" 1963-66 Ford FE engine rocker shaft and arm assemblies in 1975 at the local Ford dealer. The parts had inked date stamps on them. The assemblies were made a week AFTER I ordered them.