Posts by rr64_old

  • NOS early 65 air cleaner

    Sure looks over reworked to me. The lid appears replated and the base painted.


    Lid Finish

    The early 1963-64 Fairlane/Cobra/Accessory chrome "tuned" air cleaner lids usually had pretty rough surfaces and often had "ludder lines" stretch marks from forming the metal someplace on the part. All the original plating lids I have seen also had four very noticeable "knock off pin" marks in the center “hat” created by the forming die ejection pins (spring loaded or cammed pins to push the formed lid off the press die). The original supplier did nothing to hide these pin marks. The plating system used on the lids was also not very good. The unmolested ones I have examined were usually just nickel plating on the inside and chromium on the top side. The original finish usually rusted very quickly in the low places where dirt and water could collect. I have only seen a very few in use where original plating was not rusty to some extent.


    Base Finish

    The original 1963-64 bases I have seen only had over spray on the inside, with some nearly all bare steel with just scattered paint speckles. Most of the unmolested bases I find for sale were painted gold on the bottom side but Cobras and retail purchased accessories all seem to have been black.


    I had seen or had unmolested ones from Cobras with rusty (typical) lids and a base either black outside with black overspray inside or black over gold outside with gold and black over spray inside. It is interesting that same gold ones apparently got repainted black for Cobra use.

  • hypo badges

    Quote from 66KGT

    Very informative post Dan. Thank you!


    Your welcome. It is a jungle out there. I bought a "NOS" C2OE oil pump on an ebay® auction that arrived in a Ford box marked C2OE but the engineering number on the pump was 1990s something. The trouble was I paid a price suitable for a 1960s vintage part. I have also has the displeasure of buying a NOS part in a blue and gray FoMoco package that turned out to be a Asian "reproduction". Apparently the seller recouped his cost for real NOS by selling me a counterfeit in the box his genuine part arrived in. In the end I was able to get part of my money back after days of messages. The phrase Buyer Beware has never been more appropriate.

  • hypo badges

    New Old Stock (NOS)


    Long timer's perspective. I have been associated with antique cars and finding parts for them since 1960. I remember the Hemmings Motor New issues being just a few pages long when they arrived in the mail.


    In the old days the Antique Automobile Club of America people used these generalizations.


    Original - an original used part installed by the OEM on a vehicle, now salvaged and available in the market, a.k.a. "new car take off" in the case a dealer removed the part to put an upgrade in its place. Shelby American use to offer OEM 1965 Mustang parts for sale used like this for parts removed from Mustangs destined to become GT350s. Steve Saleen did exactly the same thing in the 1980s for his cars.


    OS – Old Stock, literally surplus old production parts that never got used. Often found in the hands of suppliers after the OEM cancelled orders. Might not even be usable as is because of poor storage conditions post production.


    NOS - New Old Stock, new parts made for or by the car OEM during the original production era. May have been surplus production parts or parts made for service. Usually “factory” parts but could have been an aftermarket supplier using original specifications. The implication was they were brand NIB (new in box) and in perfect condition.


    Service Parts – Any manufacturer’s parts that will do the job but were not OEM. A service part may or not meet original specifications. Manufacturers tried to gain market share by claiming their offering was better than OEM. Years later this became Aftermarket like nearly all speed shop parts.


    Superseded – Parts made to replace a prior version that was not required to be exactly like the “originals” they replace as long as the worked. Ford does this a lot!!!!


    NRS – New Replacement Stock, the first “reproductions”. Parts made for or buy the OEM to restock service needs after the original made in period parts were depleted. These parts may or may not be just like the “originals”. They were made to keep cars going not return them to show room floor.


    NORS - New Old Replacement Stock, NRS parts after they are no longer in production.


    Reproduction – new parts made by anybody to fit form and function of the original assembly line parts.


    Of course the problems are

    1) Anything beside Original and OS may have been made somewhat differently than “original” for a variety of reasons.

    2) Sellers on sites like ebay® tend to claim all the above versions above are “NOS”.

    3) Some “reproductions” are actually copies of non production designs because

    a. the maker didn’t know the difference

    b. the maker could not find an original to use for a pattern (there are some Cobra marked parts being sold as “reproductions” that are copies of copies)

  • early K code 289 HIPO equipment

    Found Rick Wood’s pictures of CSX2000’s engine made in the 1980s.


    1-4V iron intake SK12569


    engine block C2OE-6015-J


    fan belt FoMoCo® (in oval) C2OE-6620-AD (could be AB) MADE IN USA AU-1-2 515


    distributor vacuum advance port pluged, some type of unusal part number sticker on side faded to obsecurity

  • early K code 289 HIPO equipment

    Quote from Halowe

    quote:

    The C2OE- and XE- engine part prefixes were found in very early (early to be completed) cars with 260 engines. I have heard rumors of an SK- marked 1-4V iron intake but I have not seen one. As


    I am familiar with the iron XE single four-barrel intake used on the 260 XHP (1962-early 1963). They have a casting number of C2OE-9425-K with an additional casting number XE-106391. I have not seen or heard of an SK marked intake for the 260 application, though.


    Rick Wood took pictures of CSX2000 for a magazine article in the 1980s when Mr. Shelby allowed the car out for a rare appearance. Rick took pictures of a lot of items at my request. At the time it had a 1-4V intake marked SK12569. I am not sure where the pictures are these days but the SK12569 is the number listed in my notes of unusual Cobra parts.


    I have a camshaft stamped SK8821 HC7 that I was told was for a Cobra race engine with Webers but I haven't found anybody with a SK parts interchange list.

  • early K code 289 HIPO equipment

    The heads on the original engine in my Cobra seem to be just normal Fairlane parts, everything is in configuration and size for a Fairlane. The heads are C3OE dated 4A14 and C3OE dated 3M23. In our survey of 1963-64 assembled 5-bolt engines in Cobras in which we have a high confidence they were the car's original, just normal HP289 heads show up. In fact everything in the engines right down to bearing shells for the crank and rods was just Fairlane HP289. Well, I take that back, three exceptions. Some cars have transmissions with the Pontiac input shaft and they require a GM clutch disc. Late production chassis with Ford alternators have unique mounting brackets for alternators and use the large pulley 1963 Ford alternator from the high end “optional” charging system. Shelby’s crew added a heater water shut-off valve at the intake.


    The odd balls are the 260 engines used in Cobras. I have been trying to get a friend to dig his castings out (the original engine has been out of his Cobra since the 1960s when a "Shelby Race" engine was installed) without success. They are very far back in a store room, twenty years back. Otherwise there is a early 260 purchased many years ago at a swap meet that was supposed to have come from one of the first dozen Cobras completed. The heads are marked XE-10021 and XE-10021-3 with 1.67 / 1.45 valves. I have not seen them myself but a member of our group has.

  • COMPLETE C6FE ENGINE ORIGINAL

    Quote from BIGERMIKE

    I thought that the 289 used in GT40 had O'rings instead of head gaskets.


    Ford made at least two different "HP289" C6FE cylinder head castings for race only. Some used a typical type head gasket and some used a special arrangement. In 1967 Ford published a part number and application guide for engines used in GT40s and Group II racers that shows a special head gasket for use with heads that had copper compression rings pressed into grooves cut into the cylinder heads for these engines.

  • early K code 289 HIPO equipment

    Hello,I registered on this site to respond to this thread.Regarding engines and engine castings in Cobras produced between early 1962 and 1965. They can be almost anything engineering number and date code wise. Because they can be and have been found to be just about anything is why Mr. Mannel left them out of his book per my correspondence with him. Adding to the confusion is that parts were delivered from Ford or its suppliers in lots. These parts were mated to car as they were finished. The cars were not finished in any kind of serial number order. Whether or not part date codes on parts make sense to a particular car depend on how those dates line up with when the car was completed. Evidence suggests that one lot of parts from a supplier might have covered the production of a hundred or more Cobras spread out over more than six months. Typical original Cobra owners have not until very recently given much thought about original parts, especially engines. Wheeler dealers never cared unless claims of originality increased their profit. Most owners did not seem to care if the car was completely correct or not, they finally got a genuine Cobra in the garage. This is especially true if the person spent upwards of thirty years accumulating the wealth and chasing the market curve until their funds and car values crossed paths. I know of one gentleman that started off circa 1966 trying to get an original Cobra and finally met the cross roads of funding, market value, and opportunity in 2003. He had the car for a year before he started wondering whether or not parts matched his car. There is an owner group that started documenting details of original equipment a few years ago. This group is by and large owner enthusiasts that have owned their Cobras for decades, some are original owners.The information gathered to date covers cars finished in early 1962 all the way to the very last leaf spring roadsters. Much of if from the small number of never seriously crashed, highly modified, or restored Cobras. Engineering numbers cover just about the whole range of what would have been found in Fairlanes between 1962 and 1964. We have documented C2OE-, XE-, C3OE-, C3AE-, C4OE-, C5OE-, and a few other engineering number prefixes for non engine parts. The C2OE- and XE- engine part prefixes were found in very early (early to be completed) cars with 260 engines. I have heard rumors of an SK- marked 1-4V iron intake but I have not seen one. (SK Intake Update: 09/27/06 I did not remember the pictures Rick Wood took in the 1980s. Since this post I have found them. See later posts. Thanks.) As in other Fords, engineering prefixes and date codes have been found to overlap in Cobras in some cases. Note, approximately thirty Cobras with C4 automatic transmissions built near the end of 1964 had six bolt HP289 engines, whereas all other Cobras had five bolt versions. Date codes for drive train related Ford parts for Cobras have been just about the full range of 1962 to 1964 Fairlanes too, but usually grouped. Example, all the known original fuel pumps for 1964-65 Cobras were all made in a short time frame as one model number. Dates on individual parts may be considerably earlier than the car’s assembly date, with all main (block, heads, etc.) engine date codes usually pretty close together. Early in this thread and in discussions on several other websites is the question, how do I determine if this engine part was originally on a Cobra? As a rule you can not unless you were present when it was removed from the car. There is an exception, engine blocks. Since Ford and or Shelby American were good enough to include an engine serial number most Cobra owners have access to what that original number is. Cars with chassis CSX2201 through CSX2589 had this information stamped on to the warrantee identification plate riveted to the right side footbox.