Posts by rr64_old

  • rev limit on good hipo rods

    In the early 1970s a local man drag raced a 1966 Mustang GT coupe with its original HP289 modified with most parts from the local Ford dealer. We recently discussed that car, he said he ran to 9,200 rpm on the quarter mile drag strip. He never broke a rod. I used to run SFM5S142 to 8,500 rpm with stock rods except for aftermarket bolts. In 2006 we looked a the busted engine in an early HP289 Mustang that the owner had been drag racing for several years. He said he transmission failed and the tach tell tale went off scale about the time the front main bearing web came out of the block and took everything else with it. The busted piece of crank still had two beat up but unbroken rods on it.

  • AMP Gauge BOUNCING AROUND-NEED HELP!!!

    Re: Reproduction Voltage Regulator


    f.y.i....I recently installed a reproduction assembly on my car and the amp gauge needle jerked around and swung wildly. Yes, I had good metal to metal contact points for ground. After some investigation I found that the male spade connectors on the replacement part were made of thinner gauge metal than all the 1960s ones I had around here. I could shake the assembly and the wiring plug would fall off. On the part made in 1964 I removed for replacement the spade terminals fit well and required significant effort to remove or install the plug.


    There was nothing I could do about the metal gauge of the terminals but I could take some small pliers and put a very slight twist in each lug. That fix made the effort to install the plug similar to the 1964 part.


    I just got back from a 150+ mile ride this morning. The amp gauge needle no longer jumped around.


    Dan

  • How much carb is enough?? Too much??

    Smoother running, crisper transitions, and better economy would probably be obtained with a 600 cfm or smaller vacuum secondary carburetor. People don't think a Ford carburetor in either of the 1.08 or 1.12 sizes is very glamorous but they are one of the very best designs of all time.


    Back in the 1970s a friend of mine drag raced his Mustang with a finely tuned 1.08 model and did very well in the stock classes.


    Dan

  • Cobra Valve Covers


    The valve cover tooling I held in my hands was well used and had places that had been repaired. It might not have been suitable for making thousands of sand molds in production but small numbers yes. The pattern which was hard wood, did not have the “BUDDY …” labeling in what would make the inside of them anymore. The vendor only had one, he didn’t have a pair. See below. No doubt other patterns have been made since. The original drawings are out in public.


    Apparently there was more than one set of patterns. In all the cars (all but a handful unrestored) and parts through my garage it indicates that there were three and maybe four slightly different "original" versions. Some differences are no doubt just casting core shift. Some look like changes done on purpose. I just looked at three sets not installed here and the PCV side pattern and oil fill side outer pattern is significantly different around those ports. You wouldn’t likely notice this if they were on an engine. If you add up left and right side versions and different lettering style and content (different actual lettering) lettering styles I think there is four different castings in three sets of covers. One set is the original to one of my cars as far as I know. The other two pairs are dirty old unrestored ones I purchased in pairs in the quest to find a matched pair that have had not their baffles and or oil fill tube modified for an engine I am gathering parts for. This all indicates that multiple patterns were used between 1963 and whenever that last “original” ones were cast. No doubt as patterns wore out new ones were created, where did the old ones go?


    I have seen "new made" "open letter covers" for sale with and without "BUDDY …." lettering on the inside. Just having the lettering inside is no proof of being from the 1960s. Because so much from the era has been counterfeited the only protection buyers have is to find somebody with examples that are not questioned to compare to.


    One of the questions early in this thread related to the possibility that somebody besides Buddy Bar. Co. making these things. Sure it is possible. Just look at the “COBRA small letter” 1-4V intake confusion. Based on Shelby’s 1965 catalog both Buddy and Offenhauser were doing the casting with at least some machine work done by Dearborn Steel Tube. Ah ha, two companies casting and two companies machining intakes of the same part number during the same time frame maybe explains why people have on their cars several similar but different versions. I am open to the idea that there might have been some sets made in the 1960s without the “BUDDY …” lettering inside. I would like to know their history though.


    Dan

  • Cobra Valve Covers

    Quote from round2K

    quote:

    Never heard of over-the-counter being non-buddy bar, but Jeff could probably confirm that.


    I have a set of non-Buddy Bar open letter Cobra covers that were bought by the original owner of my car OTC from the Ford dealer in Eagle Rock, CA. I've often wondered how many vendors were making them for Ford, of if Buddy Bar just dropped the name inside the castings.


    I would wonder when the parts were sold over the counter as some Ford dealers jumped on the old car restoration train decades ago and stocked genuine original parts, after market parts, and what people call replacement or reproduction parts. You could buy "reproduction" parts at some in the 1970s, especially in big markets. Our local dealer did. Just because the place was a Ford agency didn't mean they couldn't sell parts and accessories on their own. The dealer in Huntsville would install what ever you would pay for, example a 1970 Boss 302 drive train in a brand new Maverik.


    There has been at least one company sand casting "open letter" covers as a lower cost alternative to originals and that was at least 20 years ago. There was also one man taking the die cast "solid letter" covers of mid-1966 and later design and reworking them to look like the sand cast "open letter" design. Both were advertised in SAAC publications years ago.


    Just to add spice, as far as I know, some of the original hardwood patterns for valve covers, air cleaners, and oil pans are still being used to make low volumes of "original" (their words not mine) parts. Circa January 1984 I was in vendor’s office and I picked up and looked at the original wooden sand casting patterns for the Cobra and 428/427 Cobra valve covers. They were well used but in very good condition and I was told a run of parts was either just made or was going to be made, wasn’t important to write it down back then. The rumor mill says that the patterns are still out there in use in low volume. Have you ever noticed that an occasional set of “NOS” valve covers or a Cobra roadster oil pan show up on ebay® looking made yesterday, with no storage scratches, no old hand print stains, or other handling patina, with no factory packaging at all, and no history beyond the 1980s or 1990s or 2000s. I have not closely looked at “new” valve covers but the counterfeit “COBRA POWERED BY FORD” oil pans are easy to spot in pictures.

    This goes for Weber intakes too. I just checked out a “NOS” one that has no history beyond the mid 1980s. Interesting I think as by 1982 two suppliers were offering brand new freshly made replacements in national publications by June of that year. The “NOS” intake offered was similar to but not the same as the damaged original I am trying to replace so I declined buying it.


    It seems many people do not realize that vendors started to actively make or have made copies of many Shelby and Cobra parts by 1977. Sometimes they found original suppliers and or tools and sometimes they didn’t. Even Ford started reiussing things like 1966 GT350 gas caps in the 1970s that were similar but not the same as original production parts. Chances are if you find a 1966 GT350 gas cap in a blue and white 1970s style box it is a New Old Replacement Stock (NORS) made by Ford to fill the orders that were coming in for Mustang parts of all kinds. I remember the event, that to my mind, started the rush to get new factory parts. In 1976 (believe that is correct) the little club called the Mustang Club of America had their first event at Stone Mountain Georgia. I showed my Boss 302 that weekend. There was man with a 1965 or 1966 (can’t recall anymore) Mustang convertible there that was like a new car. The car had been restored so to speak will all new parts. Anything not part of the body sheet metal or drive train was a NOS part from smallest clip to upholstery. There were two brand new Boss 429 Mustangs on a roll back truck (no miles, plastic on seats, wipers, never been dealer prepared) that people walked right past to go see the convertible. That car got lots of attention as most of the cars there were our daily drivers still. By the next event vendors were lined up with truck loads of NOS parts. Ford made what a million plus Mustangs between 1964 and 1966. If they had even a sensible 20% of extra parts made for them there would have been several hundred thousand of every service part out in some warehouse or dealer’s store room some place. Those large numbers have made it possible for tens of thousands of Mustangs to be reworked once to many times with NOS parts in the last four decades. Now think Shelby parts. 1965 GT350 production plus maybe 20% service, then maybe 112 of anything was ever made during production to serviced cars later. 1966 GT350 production plus maybe 20% service, then maybe 460 of anything was made extra for warrantee claims and crash repair. Now how do you suppose at least half the cars have been restored once and some several times will all production parts? They couldn’t have been. It is worse for Cobra and 427 Cobra owners. There are people that have owned their cars for nearly 30 years that have never seen an original of some parts. They know what has been used as replacements for decades but originals of many parts are so rare they have never seen one.

  • Carter fuel pump

    Quote from bobmannel

    There are three pumps out of that sequence. They were 1576 pumps with dates of J3 and L3. They even use the earlier stamped codes. My thought is that these could be service replacements. They are clearly configured as 1963 production pumps, but were made after 1964 production began.


    These three units on my list are all on Cobra engines and all three are believed to be original to the cars. All three cars were finished in early 1964. One of them is my unrestored black car.


    Cobras have a problem with fuel line clearance. To deal with this Shelby's mechanics had to rotate the valve body to the front and add a 90° elbow fitting. Images of as received engines show stock Ford valve body orientations. Images of engines going or coming into chassis clearly show the rotation of the valve body and elbow.


    [Blocked Image: http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r187/rr64/MVC-003S-1.jpg]


    I am collecting parts for a Cobra engine and I bought a 0-1658 3734S. I rotated the valve body and installed the correct elbow. I am not sure it will work. The valve body on a 0-1658 3734S rotated like the 0-1576 3623S originals puts the inlet port real close to the harmonic balancer. I might have to do something else. I have been looking for a pump like found on three three Cobras since 2004 and had no luck. I have even had some of the larger rebuilding services check their inventory of cores and come up empty handed. More and more I am beginning to think the Cobras got special treatment fuel pump wise.


    Dan Case

  • Carter fuel pump

    Quote from bobmannel

    I have a 1963 Fairlane 289 HiPo assembled on 3D9 and would like to rebuild a date-correct fuel pump for it.


    Bob,

    The only one of those early ones that I have any idea where it is now is the 0-1600 3623S C3 one. I'll send you an e-mail.


    Any idea why there why 3623S and 3732S models were being made at the same time and why 3732S and 3734S versions were being made at the same time? In each case the overlap period was long enough to have been something other than an accident.


    Dan

  • Carter fuel pump

    I have a puzzle. Why were there multiple models of 1963-64 fuel pumps being made during the same time span? All seem to be for 260/289 engines. Here is a list of pumps I have seen, seen pictures of, or held in my hands.


    Casting Model Date

    0-1576 3623S 3B

    0-1600 3623S C3

    0-1600 3623S D3

    0-1600 3623S E3

    ? 3623S F3

    ? 3732S H3

    ? 3732S H3

    0-1576 3623S J3

    0-1576 3623S J3

    0-1576 3623S L3

    0-1658 3732S L3

    0-1658 3732S L3

    ? 3734S L3

    0-1658 3732S A4

    ? 3732S C4

    ? 3734S C4

    ? 3736S F4

    0-1658 3734S G4


    I believe I understand the casting identification for the main body. I would just guess they were different mold numbers as where I work we have as many as four molds to make one part of the same design. Just holding a 3623S, a 3732S, and 3734S side by side you can see some differences in the valve bodies.


    The most obvious difference to me is that the 3623S has a differnt angle between the inlet and outlet ports than the others. I wonder why the different port orientations and model numbers?


    Dan Case

  • HIPO Balancers

    Quote from bobmannel

    I have the 482th 289 HiPo produced and it has the C3OE-B damper. It might be a pre-production item, or maybe just the first few engines got them. I just never rule out anything. There could be one out there.


    Hi Bob,

    I have a C3OE-B part with a B3 date. I have no idea what it was originally on it is fully degreed as advertised by Shelby's parts books.

    Dan

  • Tape on washer bag cap?

    If I remember correctly SFM5S142 had a piece of green tint cloth tape on the washer reservoir cap and some place else around the unused battery area (but can't recall anymore)in the engine bay. I seem to recall dished rubber plugs in two large holes in the unused battery area, but that was a long time ago...........


    Dan

  • List-3259 Holley / 1965 GT350


    These two carburetors came on neither!


    The 4B5 dated one was installed on Cobra CSX2555 (one of just three Cobras documented to be so equipped CSX2497, CSX2553, and CSX2555 all got high rise small letter "COBRA" intakes and 715 cfm Holleys) that was invoiced in April 1965. During the strange practice called “restoration” the car had a color change, lost it’s extremely rare factory high rise set up and unique Cobra throttle bracket only three cars got so it could get a copy of the 1967 version of the over the counter retail accessory 2-4V system with small Holley carburetors, and got side out headers. I tried to get the carburetor reunited with the car for decades and gave up earlier this year. The owners of the car (more than one) could care less about having CSX2555’s original carburetor under any circumstances except give it to them. It now sits on the engine of a very low serial number 1965 GT350 that a member of this website group owns. The GT350 owner got a deal as the price was lower than most and the carburetor was near mint.


    To the best of my knowledge the 503 dated one was purchased over the counter retail and has never been on a GT350.


    I don’t have the documents in front of me but I seem to recall Holley had four different design level revisions for the List-3259 assembly and a similar number for the List-3259-1 assembly, some were functional. The List- (or in bill of materials nomenclature R-) number is insufficient to completely describe the design level just as using “9510” is not enough Ford part number to describe an assembly. There were different design level suffixes like –A and –AAS for example. The biggest change was the jump between the 3259 and 3259-1 main number. The 3259-1 has design features to delay the opening of the secondaries until a higher primary flow rate is reached and close the secondaries sooner as compared to the 3259 design. This makes a List-3259-1 much more suitable for a little 289 than a List-3259.


    Cheers……

  • List-3259 Holley / 1965 GT350

    I haven't had a 1965 GT350 in decades now but I still have a few notes. I thought I would share these notes on two carburetors that were totally unchanged at the time the survey was done. I made notes of some details one could see externally. Over the years I have examined others like them. Like all mass production assemblies there were constant design changes throughout the production time span. (I tried several times to try and figure out how to make the text a side by side comparison but every preview looked like a scrambled mess. Sorry)


    Early (second production run) Assembly

    Model Number

    List 3259


    Date Code

    4B5


    Main Body Casting

    6R-2481


    Auxiliary Venturi

    45R-131B


    Primary Metering Block

    3903


    Secondary Metering Block

    4560


    Secondary Bowl Plug

    (no identification “short” hex plug)


    Fuel Transfer Line Fittings

    IMPERIAL FLEX PAT’D 1-4


    Choke Mechanism Casting

    34R-1784


    Vacuum Diaphragm Cover

    D


    Throttle Plate Casting

    12R-2916-B


    Secondary Knock Off Link

    gun blue type finish


    Accelerator Pump Casting

    34R-2178 5


    Fuel Bowl Screws

    2


    Fuel Bowl Lettering Condition (as cast)

    very sharp crisp clear


    Late Production Assembly

    Model Number

    List 3259


    Date Code

    503


    Main Body Casting

    6R-2795 B


    Auxiliary Venturi

    45R-131B


    Primary Metering Block

    4756


    Secondary Metering Block

    4560


    Secondary Bowl Plug

    WEATHERHEAD


    Fuel Transfer Line Fittings

    IMPERIAL FLEX PAT’D 1-4


    Choke Mechanism Casting

    34R-1784


    Vacuum Diaphragm Cover

    N


    Throttle Plate Casting

    12R-2916-B


    Secondary Knock Off Link

    leached clear zinc / zinc chromate


    Accelerator Pump Casting

    34R-2178 5


    Fuel Bowl Screws

    2


    Fuel Bowl Lettering Condition (as cast)

    blurred

  • Hurst Wheels

    I too associate the Hurst wheel design with GM vehicles.


    Around north Alabama the Cragar S/S wheels were very popular as were the Keytsone Klassics (spelling??). I always thought the Cragar S/S wheels looked great and I have seen some 15X6 ones on a late 1965 GT350.