Posts by round2K_old

  • Arvinode system reproduction

    The information below is provided courtesy of Bob Mannel, who has a copy of the 1965 MPC. It appears that the MPC part numbers for the rear hangers differ with those of the Ford "Arvinode" illustration. There are two distinct part numbers listed in the MPC vs the single part number in the illustration.This is great stuff as it adds the precise Ford part numbers to the equation. It also validates the two different hangers found on the cars that had remnants of the node system.


    Quote

    The Muffler part numbers: From 10-15-64 to before 3-22-64 (date differs from other sources). The system in the old master was simply referred to as the "node". C5ZZ-5246-G H-pipe. C5ZZ-5230-E muffler/extension assembly right side. C5ZZ-5230-F muffler/extension assembly left side. The inlet, front muffler, pipe to resonator, and resonator were all one unit without a break -- one welded together assembly that was 91.17" long. All pipes were 2". I don't know the diameter of the mufflers, but the resonators were 2¾" in diameter, just like on the Fairlane. I determined this by looking at the rear hanger clamps which wrapped around the resonators. The clamp (C5ZZ-5A231-A) was for 2¾" pipe. I suspect that the mufflers were 2¾" as well, with the sound chamber welded on top of that.


    Hanger part numbers: From 10-15-64 to before 3-22-64. C5ZZ-5A246-L (right side just forward of the axle). C5ZZ-5A246-M (left side just forward of the axle). These used with the "node" system. C5ZZ-5230-C (left side -- aft of axle). C5ZZ-5260-D (right side -- aft of axle). Both the same as before 10-15-64. However, used with clamp C5ZZ-5A231-A (left and right - 2¾"). (So, resonators had to be 2¾".)


    Joe Tonietto has the engineered drawings now, so we are on our way to an authentic reproduction.

  • Arvinode system reproduction

    More of the story:


    I approached Joe Tonietto at Waldron's Antique Exhaust about this project before I was able to find any of the former Arvin folks. Joe was interested and enthusiastic about the project and was willing to give it a shot, even with the absence of plans. Now we have the Arvin connection!


    Today we had a terrific session with Jim Abbott, the retired superintendent from the Arvin prototype shop, and Dick Irwin. We owe a special debt of gratitude to Dick Irwin. Dick's dad, Benjamin Irwin, filed the Arvin patent in 1963 together with Ed Ludlow. Dick has been championing this project from day one and is as interested in seeing the sytem reproduced as we are. Dick is also responsible for recruiting Jim Abbott. Jim, who is 73, is helping us obtain spec sheets and plans of the original design. He also has an encylopedic knowledge of the system and it is all from first hand experience as the guy that built the real deal for Arvin.


    The systems were tuned on a chassis dyno prior to production. Noise reduction was optimized based on specific speed/load combinations. There was a "trombone" mechanism built into the muffler that two men operated while the car was in the dyno to obtain the optimum combination with the Quincke tube.


    Jim has located the drawings for the rear resonator and hopes to have the front muffler plans next week. Jim has been generous in fielding many questions from us and he's digging down deep to remember details from over 40 years ago.


    This a good team effort and the more people contribute the better it gets:


    Charles Turner let me pester him about the Arvin system for the last three years and posted those pictures of the junked system.


    Ditto that for Bob Mannel, who patiently answered many, many questions. Bob's book is the bible and has more Arvin exhaust information than any other publication.


    Karl Seifert posted the Herschel-Quincke stuff which led to the Irwin & Ludlow patent for Arvin.


    The patent led to Dick Irwin, who generously introduced us to Jim Abbott.


    RalphJr posted the piece about tuning, which led to a discussion about the dyno tuning "trombone".


    Now we have Joe working directly with Jim and you couldn't ask for a better pair of guys for the task.


    The prototype arrived today. Joe produced it before we had all the information we have now, so there will undoubtedly be changes. This weekend I will test fit the system, record the sound, then ship it back to Joe. I will find a way to get wav files of the early transverse system I currently have and the prototype posted.


    At some point we're going to need an original K code in the Michigan area for an installation at Joe's shop. If I could afford to send my car back I would, but that's not in the budget. When we get the local K code to Joe's place and do that installation Jim Abbott and Dick Irwin are going to be there to hear the finished product. That could really be a fun event and I hope some of us can join them. If you are within driving distance of Joe's shop and are interested in being the test car please send me a PM.


    If you want to be put on the interest list for the system email Waldron's Antique Exhaust using the link below. There is still no idea of what it will cost yet. When it is ready for the market you will be dealing with Waldron's or possibly a bigger outfit like NPD or Mustangs Plus if they cut a deal with Joe. I know we will be treated fairly and am not worried about Joe building a good system as he is as passionate about this stuff as we are. The system will also be built with material that will last, not rolled steel like the originals.


    BTW: You will be in good company as Jay Leno is one of Joe's cusomters.


    http://www.jaylenosgarage.com/video/video_pl…html?vid=190235


    http://www.waldronexhaust.com/shop/contact_us.php

  • Arvinode system reproduction

    Based on the documentation we have in parts books and technical service bulletins the Arvin system would have been used during the following periods of assembly:


    Dearborn & Metuchen cars: 10/15/64 to 04/02/65

    San Jose cars: 10/15/64 to 04/04/65


    There will be exceptions:


    Transverse Duals: Based on conversations with a former Ford plant manager in San Jose there may well be SJ cars that received the transverse system due to materials shortages on the West Coast. There was clearly a surplus of the transverse muffler produced as we have seen many NOS units with the 10/64 date code sold on ebay and at swap meets.


    GT Duals: The Arvin system was replaced in production with the GT Dual In-Line system when the GT was introduced in April of '65. It would be logical that the GT introduction would be consistent with the cut-off dates for the Arvin system listed above. I do not have specifics on the first GT production date; perhaps someone with more detailed GT information can contribute there. That date should be in Jim Smart's Production Guide.

  • Arvinode system reproduction

    This is exciting news and I am glad to share it with those who have been waiting for the Arvinode system.


    The trail has led me to a former Arvin employee who worked there for over 30 years. He spent the majority of that time working in the prototype department and personally fabricated many, many of the Arvinode systems. Between this employee and the son of one of the original engineers there is enormous pride in the Arinvode system. We are going to end up with detailed information right down to the welding.


    Here are some of the highlights:


    The first thing that was brought to my attention was the use of the word Arvinode. There was an Arvinode system that was more closely patterned along the lines of the Arvin patent mentioned in prior posts, and Arvin developed that sytem in advance of the system for the Mustang. The system in the Mustang was referred to as the Resonode. This should be easy to document if the shop drawings have a title block.


    The line that we see along the top of the front muffler is one of the "Quincke" tubes. He recalls that the exhaust pipe and internal tube were both 2 1/4" and the outside diameter of the front muffler was 3 1/2", with Quincke tubes inside and out. The 2 1/4" material was louvered on the inside and exhaust passed straight through without restriction. The entire concept was predicated on the dampening of specific pulses within the Quincke tubes, and there was considerable time and effort expended getting it to work. The size & location of the Quincke tube was the secret sauce. The reason it looks odd to us in the photos we have posted here is because the tube was simply crimped then welded! The rear resonator was there to pick up residual noise and contained two internal tubes which wrapped with fiberglass fabric to dampen any pinging.


    The system was in production by 10/15/64 and there were noise complaints within days. There is a sense that those complaints were primarily in small towns. In other words, lead-footed youths drawing just enough attention to be ticketed for noise by the local constabulary. It is probable that the system was changed to avoid the ongoing TSB retrofit costs if people complained. The louvered trumpets were sold as an additional accessory together with the trim rings, and that was ahead of the GT duals that would subsequently replace the Resonode! In other words, there could be authentic Arvin trumpets on cars priot to the introduction of the GT if they were equpped with the Resonode system between October of 64 and April of 65.


    There is good reason that the systems are extinct; they were made of carbon steel, not galvanized or aluminized. The reason for that was to facilitate the welding of the various Quincke tubes. (We can resolve this in the reproductions with stainless.) It is entirely possible that NOS systems in later years developed rust internally by simply sitting on the shelf in a warehouse.


    Due to the short life of the production use, and the subsequent introduction of the GT in-line duals, there was a surplus of Resonode systems that ended up in parts departments. This would support the experience(s) of those who bought them over the counter in later years.


    These guys have a great story to tell and are very sincere in wanting to help us get an authentic system back on the road!

  • Arvinode system reproduction

    More news:


    The two engineers that designed the system have both passed away, but their sons are alive. One of the sons lives in the house that originally belonged to his father. He is going to look through his father's records to see if there are any drawings or plans. He is also going to speak with the other family members and ask that they look too. He said that at the time the system was presented to Ford it was received with great enthusiasm. He also said that his father had a challenge in getting the silencing tube(s)to correct length for the concept to work.