If you're paying up for a near #1 car part of that value will be in authenticity. If it wasn't a GT you probably don't want to convert as you will be drilling some holes and changing a few parts. I have a non-GT car and find it is often the least common car at shows as there are so many fake GTs out there. (Not meaning to knock your idea.)
Posts by round2K_old
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Progress update on the prototyping:
Prototype 3 is the one I’ve stuck up on youtube. It is shown with the resonator in the photos below. I does not have the rectangular tube steel across the top.
Prototype 4 has been built as per plan and has the rectangular aluminized steel tube across the top as shown in the Arvin and Ford drawings. In the Arvin drawing you will see the bar is offset to an angle; this was changed in production to eliminate the offset and we believe it had to do with tunnel clearance. The purpose of the bar is still being researched, but we believe it to have been for both strengthening and mass dampening.
I have attached images for reference showing the original set that came off of Herb’s car, the muffler and resonator from prototype #3, and the final prototype #4. The internal components of this final set are exactly as drawn and that sound will be it!
Prototype 3 Muffler & Resonator
[Blocked Image: http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/5879/arvinodeprototype03ix1.jpg]
Prototype 3 Louvers
[Blocked Image: http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/4236/arvinodeprototype03resojz9.jpg]
Prototype 4 with Arvin Pattern Louvers as per Plan
[Blocked Image: http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/4672/p403th0.jpg]
The photo that started this whole project:
[Blocked Image: http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/8744/oldmufflerextract1yi0.jpg]
[Blocked Image: http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/5098/mufflerextractqu7.jpg]
Prototype 4 and inlet pipes as per old shop drawings:
[Blocked Image: http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/1585/p401qz1.jpg]
Quarter Wave Tube as per Ben Irwin's Patent. The bar on the bottom is not part of the workings of the tube, it is simply welded to the outside.
[Blocked Image: http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/710/qwtubega6.jpg]
[Blocked Image: http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/1875/oldmufflerextract2av1.jpg]
The production units will be set up with the welded outlet and inlet pipes for the concours sets. The non-concours sets will be shipped in pieces. Early quotes for reproducing the hangers were prohibitively expense so Joe is working with another manufacturer now to get prices.
[Blocked Image: http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/3959/p402wk1.jpg]
All of the folks at Waldron's have been great to work with. They've chased UPS trucks, spent a lot of time on the phone and with email, and probably done a bit of cussing that they're too polite to mention. (I know I have - this is the sixth set of mufflers I've had on my car since this project started!) Joe wants me to point out that these are prototypes and that the production mufflers won't have any clamp marks or scratches from the press. He has done an amazing job of working with me on this and we've done all of the testing by mail between his shop in Michigan and my home in California. I think we're pretty close to being able to say that we - meaning everyone who has helped and contributed - have done it.
BTW: Merlyn you are right about the trumpets!
The trumpets on ebay are shown in the Ford Arvinode system illustration in Bob Mannel's book. (Bob has been a big help with this project.) Arvin made a production change - but we don't know when - and stopped welding on the turn-downs in favor of slip-on turn downs or the trumpet option. Jim Abbott said that they were available through the dealer - before the GT came out - and to install them required cutting the holes with a template and installing the trim rings. Based on that information and the Ford illustration it is possible that a non-GT car exists with and Arvinode and the trumpets.
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Herb,
You are correct about the size of the prototype #1 shown in the photos. The muffler and resonators we labeled as set 1 are pictured in the early posts. They were the first set that Joe made without the benefit of any Arvin drawings. They were not correct and were an attempt to try and get into the ballpark with the look and sizing based on what the Fairlane guys were trying.
We were able to obtain copies of the shop drawings and since then we have spent a lot of time getting the systems down to exact dimensions and fabrication as specified in the Arvin plans. The fourth (and last) set of mufflers and inlet pipes are due here in the next couple of days for testing. I will post pictures.
Please contact Waldron's Antique Exhaust for prices - I'm just the test mule. (Easy now, no jackass jokes:)
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Quote from fourspeed
I would appreciate hearing from wiser, more experienced and knowledgable individuals on this subject.
I don't know if I meet the criteria listed above but I can offer this, relating to Mustangs:
The gold has been listed in the MCA rule book for the early cars for a couple of years now. There have been some instances of bases with the Jan 65 date code on early cars in corporate blue, but that may be attributed to the part having been a service replacement. If there were instances of any variations they would likely be found in Bob Mannel's book. Early publicity photos don't tend to show the bottom of the air cleaner base, so I'm not sure how much traction you'll get with that direction.
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The early cars are gold. You can find many of those details in the MCA Rules book.
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The rectangular tube (aluminized) will be on top of the production muffler. That was supposed to be a combination stiffener and mass dampener. (Want to confirm that with Jim Abbott one more time.) The resonators were built to spec from the Arvin shop drawings.
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To those of you who have noticed the idle quality please take note. Joe made three different sets of test muffler. The first set were made when he didn't have any Arvin experts contributing. The second and third sets were made with help from Jim Abbott. There will acutally be a fourth set made which will be tested sometime in the next two weeks. Joe Tonietoo has really gone the distance helping reproduce the system.
Here is the breakdown on the tests so far:
1. The first set were basically glasspacks designed to look like the Arvinode mufflers and resonators.
2. The second set were genuine Arvin style and we have labeled them set "A". They were built exactly as per Arvin shop drawings, but we did not have access to the original louver stamping dies. The muffler has the quarter wave tube opening facing to the rear as per plan and the resonator is as per plan.
3. The third set, "B", were based on the patent pulled by Ben Irwin where he drew the quarter wave tube opening facing to the front. They are identical in every respect to the "A" set with that exception. This is the set that are shown in the road test video on youtube.
4. The fourth set, "C", will have the internal louvers made from the original Arvin die patterns and will be identical to set "A". This set will be a true reproduction of the original in every respect. They will also have the rectangular mass dampener welded to the top.
I will post a couple of shots showing the undercarriage installation for those that would like to see them installed.
Joe is still working on the prices for the clamps and will put up info for everyone at some point soon.
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If you car had a scheduled build date prior to March of 65 it is likely that it will not have the GT reinforcements in the frame rail. If the scheduled build date is between 10/15/64 and 3/22/65 it would likely have been an Arvinode equipped car. If it was built prior to 10/15/64 it would likely have been a transverse dual car. In either case the two types of systems were used before the GT duals were introduced in March of 65 when Ford started adding the frame rail reinforcements.
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I'll be honest; that was the first video recording & movie I have made in my life. I didn't have a clue what to do!
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I have received a number of requests for the video, but want to get better footage of the idle. The exterior shots did not do justice to the system where they were taken and the idle quality is actually much better than it sounded in the film. I'll try and post them this weekend and then get them up on an FTP site for those that want them.
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If you opt to report these sales to ebay there is an item in box 2 you can check for banned sales, then in box 3 there is an item for titles being sold without vehicles. They should be pulling the auctions.
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Prototype testing is all done and Joe is ready to go into production. Here is video footage of the road testing:
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Quote from 6hypo5conv
OK, So at some point in time someone deceided to reproduce the canister and just by the seat of his pants deceided to do it in RED with WHITE lettering....why would someone do this--reproduce a canister in a color that evedentally was never used on a vehicle from the factory??? STUPID!!!
A lot of parts aren't reproduced with the intent of satisfying concours collectors and/or judges; they are reproduced to make money.
A good example are some of the valve cover decals that Olson has produced through the years for 289 high performance engines. They have been around for so long that everyone assumes they came on the motors, but they didn't. When asked why he produced them his honest answer was because people kept buying them.
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Waldron's Antique Exhaust is going to need a K code for final fitting of the Arvinode system at their shop in Michigan. I have two more prototypes to test next week that have been shipped to me as components and then it's good to go into production. (I will try to take good quality sound recordings, but it's not easy to do.) We have copied the system from Arvin shop drawings and the hangers are being reproduced from originals we have obtained from various sources. If you are close to Nottawa, MI and willing to provide your car for a few days of testing for final fit it would be terrific. It will also serve as the public unveiling of the system to the folks who have been contributing to the process, in particular Dick Irwin, the inventors son, and Jim Abbott, the Arvin prototype shop foreman that originally produced the systems for Arvin. Please send me a PM if you are interested.
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Was your car equipped with the Cobra accessories and fender badges back in the 60s?
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Does anyone have photos of an early PCV valve showing the use of the plastic Autolite labels that were used? Were they installed on all of the cars with PCV?
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I tried several of those pans from both Branda and Virginia Mustang. No luck with quality or fit, and I finally gave up and stuck with the original pan. I don't know if Blue Thunder is casting those, but they are pretty rough, and the gate hinges weren't well done at all. Branda said they were making their own, but I couldn't verify it.
