Posts by Dan Case

Have you joined the Fairlane Club of America? The knowledge base is pretty broad and Bob Mannel is a member. (I strongly recommend subscribing to the online version of his book of 1962-69 small Ford V8 engines. The hard copy book is very good but it is somewhat dated now. Bob updates the online book sections from time to time.)

There is generally a pretty good range of 1964 model year engine parts being bought and sold all the time somewhere. The only difficult part of hunting is getting specific engineering versions and specific date codes if that matters to you. Said another way, there was not "a" 1964 model year engine assembly but a family of them. Ford revised some parts and changed to subsequent parts several times during the model year. Right off I can think of five engine assembly versions. Which exact version of carburetor, carburetor spacer, and cylinder head assembly come to mind right off.

If you have the Fairlane's original engine cylinder block, the engine assembly date (left front) is the most important piece of information to have a clue as to which versions of what parts and their dates would have been likely. The next most important clue is the date the raw cylinder block casting was inspected, machined, and assembled with the special thick main bearing caps. Most often the date the cylinder block assembly was prepared was the same day as subsequent engine assembly but not always. A block assembly one day and engine assembly the next was not all that rare.

Dan

There were more than a dozen new engine assembly line HP289 specific carburetor models listed in Bob Mannel's book for the 1963-67 model years. Then there were revisions within HP289 model families and there were service replacement HP289 models not exactly like in looks or function covering 1963-67 model years. Ford 4100-A carburetors as a general subject is much more complicated than most seem to be aware of. Ford engineers did the work to develop carburetor specifications to fit exact new car applications.

My understanding. The C4OF-AL was introduced approximately mid-May 1964 into new engines at the Cleveland Ohio plant for cars with PCV systems and manual transmissions: 1964 Fairlanes, 1965 A.C. Cobras, and 1965 Mustangs. All HP289 engines made through July 11, 1964 were 1964 model year five bolt bell housing ones no matter what car models or model years they went into.

The C4OF-AL carburetor model carried over into the 1965 model year PCV vented engines and vehicles with manual transmissions.

For the 1965 model year Ford installed road draft tube systems for some engines for locations where PCV systems were not required. The C5OF-L carburetor model was created for those engines and cars. The functional specifications C4OF-AL and C5OF-L models were almost the same. The differences was all in fuel jets. C4OF-AL for use with PCV system used 51F and 70F jets. C5OF-L used with road draft system used 52F and 68F jets.

The most believed theory is that 1) Ford made large quantities of C4OF-AL models for new cars and over-the-counter sales as they were recommended as a post new car retail sale enhancement for all kinds of engines and cars street and race from 260 c.i.d. engines in Sunbeam Tigers to 427 c.i.d. engines in sedans, and 2) when a batch of carburetors were required for 1965 for road draft tube vented engines, for sale in states that did not require PCV systems, some C4OF-AL models in progress were finished to C5OF-L specifications and tagged as C5OF-L models; body stamped C4OF-AL and assembly tagged as C5OF-L.

Changing specifications is as easy as changing jets and no telling how many carburetors tagged a C4OF-AL got converted with a change of jets to go with a nice C5OF-L tag somebody came across. That said, the common conversion has been to find a new car take off C5OF-L, remove the C5OF-L tag, rejet to C4OF-AL configuration, and put a C4OF-AL tag on the keeper carburetor. I have seen quite a few done that way. Of course some tags out in the world are reproductions now.

Bob Mannel's publications indicated that 1965 model year road draft tube use ended March 1965.

Fred may have some better information.

Quote from DGT350

Not sure what you mean by sequence number. You referring to the vin?

All 1963-1964 five bolt bell housing High Performance 289 engines have a Ford Cleveland Ohio engine plant serial number hand die stamped into the left rear tooling boss of the cylinder block near the block deck surface for engines made before before July 12, 1964. Ford also hand painted HP and the serial number on the back of blocks during engine assembly. This serial number has nothing to do with vehicle identification numbers (VIN). Engines were used in Cobras, Fairlanes, Mustangs, early GT40s, Genie sports racers, Lotus 30s, and other new street and race cars is several countries on two continents. Ford and Shelby American sold crate engines with Shelby American offering professional endurance and drag race crate engines also.

The most important number for restorers is the engine number. The next most important number for understanding how any engine was completed Day 1 is the engine assembly date on a pad in front of the left cylinder head.

This illustration is one page of a slide show created to help original Cobra owners understand the important "numbers" on cylinder blocks in their original engines. August 25-26, 1964 engines were not numbered in the Cleveland Ohio plant so Shelby American created their own new number sequence. In the case below a Shelby American stamped engine number is where the Cleveland plant stamped their serial number previously.

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Quote from UWLeagle

I also need to do some research to see if I can source a splash shield.

I have no connection to the seller. You might find a good used part for less.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/256499766899

You are welcome.

The COBRA version for 260 engines.

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Aluminum 4V intake wise for the Ford Fairlane engine family, this Holman-Moody piece is the earliest I know about. It is a copy of a cast iron Ford experimental 4V 260 intake manifold that never made it to production in new Fords with a Holman-Moody engineering number added and a Holman-Moody logo added. Rick Wood picture 2010.

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Decades ago, Jim Cowles and I started cataloging different castings and different ways they were machined. We stopped counting at 17 each COBRA lettered different GT350 castings. Different castings means made from different wooden masters and or features added or replaced like replacing COBRA text with SHELBY text. In more recent years some 1965-67 GT350 owners doing research have come up with more variations. Sometimes, different versions mean just machined differently as there were

1. Models for stock engines.
2. Models for engines with milled heads.
3. Race only models without all the water ports drilled and threaded.
4. A semi-finished model that racers could machine any way they wanted.
5. Race only models made from most if not all the casting versions 1964-1968. I held a circa 1968 made race only model in new old condition in my hands once in 2008.

Shelby American was no help documents wise because they listed 5 each versions in the May 31, 1965 service and race accessories book made by at least two different foundries and machined by at least two different companies. Offenhauser made countless 4V, 2-4V, and 4V intakes, but Buddy Barksdale Casting made intake castings for Holman-Moody, Shelby, and Ford too.

Legacy wise:

Holman-Moody created an aluminum copy of a Ford experimental 4V iron intake for 260 c.i.d. Ford engines designed with 1961 thinking of what high performance and rally racing required in a 260 c.i.d. engine family. Holman-Moody raced rally prepared Ford Falcons and used 260 engines in marine applications also. Dean Moon sold a MOON lettered version.

Shelby American adopted the Holman-Moody 260 4V intake for its new Cobras with 260 c.i.d. engine as a factory regular production option circa early 1963. The Holman-Moody bird logo was replaced with COBRA text and a Cobra part number was added to the castings. Shelby American had additional versions with no lettering or TIGER lettering made.

Late 1964 Shelby American came up with a race only light weight (very thin wall) 289 c.i.d. engine COBRA high rise 4V not intended for street use in Cobras because all street Cobras with HP289 engines used PCV valves and ancillaries. Light weight and very fragile. I have only seen about seven ever and all but two were broken or had been broken and repaired. The ports are so small and the walls so thin I would not try to even port match to stock gaskets.

At the end of 1964 the first 1965 GT350 intake castings were made and included a provision for a PCV system. There was also a TIGER lettered version.

From that point on, it was a constant evolution of versions until about 1971 including a COUGAR lettered model in 1967.

Circa late 1968-69 Ford released a large volume runner version with and without FORD lettering to be used with race only C6FE-A cylinder head castings (either version) or 351W cylinder head castings on 289/non-Boss 302 engines.

Performance wise, late 1966 model and onward versions of castings are generally referenced as the best performance and best cylinder balance in out of the box condition.

One noticeable change set to over-the-counter models came about after Holley Carburetor Company released their first 3-V (a.k.a. three venturi, three barrel) racing carburetor.

There were so many "high rise" Holman-Moody, COBRA, TIGER, COUGAR, SHELBY, and FORD 4V aluminum intake manifold versions, I gave up trying to even get pictures of them all decades ago.

That is a very brief flyover. To cover the subject very well might take a hundred or more illustrated pages. GT350 owners with cars missing their original intake want to know which needle in the haystack to be hunting for and that is not as easy as it sounds. Any version not used in a new assembly line vehicle is normally not as expensive to buy as one let us say correct for a 1966 GT350 made in late 1966. The exceptions are the high rise TIGER and COUGAR lettered pieces made in very small quantities. They sell for whatever a specific buyer and specific seller agree to.

Be aware that after the factory performance and sponsored racing were over, countless aluminum 4V and 2-4V intake manifolds marked with Holman-Moody, COBRA, TIGER, and SHELBY by logos or by lettering were defaced to remove brand identifications and sold off at discount prices. I have seen several manifolds with just a little bit of the R in Tigers still visible for example.

You are welcome.

There were earlier Ford thin PCV adapter plates with PCV hose bib but they are extremely rare and very costly when located usually. The 1969-70 Boss 302 piece either original or reproduction are readily available most of the time.

The earliest reference I have found was in the 1967½ Honest Charley catalog with special "Shelby" section. "SHELBY" lettered parts were aftermarket parts sold retail through about early 1972. There was an accessory company marketing these items sometimes called Shelby-Autosports or Autosports Products. Carroll Shelby Enterprises also advertised them.

Design wise it is like the circa 1967 version of over-the-counter COBRA lettered intake manifold sold with three extra screw bosses to mount ancillaries to.

Shelby Auto Sport Parts Catalogs & "How to Order Shelby American Parts" Salesman Binder Insert

This item is part of the online auction: Celebrating 100 Years of Carroll Shelby: Performance Parts & Memorabilia Collection. Bidding starts Mar 21 and ends…

ontime.mecum.com

No adapter plate is required for Holley® 4150/4160 type carburetors. If you use a Ford 4100-A series carburetor from the 1960s something is required to be able to seal the underside of the carburetor. Personally, I like to use a 1969-70 Boss 302 PCV spacer plate to connect a PCV system to instead of putting crankcase venting into the last two runners in back.

If the stamping has not been milled off, I would be interested in the engine assembly date left front for a research project. If deck milling removed the engine assembly date, I am interested in the cylinder block assembly date stamped on the oil pan rail. (I can only read part of the code in your picture.)

Quote from Ivy

Ah thanks for the explanation. I was a little concerned but I'm sure now its a real deal carb.

You are welcome. There are bodies out there with no date on the underside. The key point is the casting for manual choke models is different from automatic choke models.

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Quote from Ivy

I did a search here on the site and discovered that all HP carbs have the 11-5-63 date stamped on the underside. What is the history behind that stamp and is it an indicator of a true HIPO unit? This carb I have also has the C5OF-J stamp and appears authentic

It was not stamped into the part, it was a permanent mark in the molds used to make the parts. It is not the date the body was die cast. It had something to do with tool identification is my guess after working 37 years in manufacturing.

Based on HP289 specific samples on hand or saved pictures.

C4OF-AL (manual trans.) models from assembly date 4DE onward

Early assembly dates: no marking

Most assembly dates: 11 • 5 • 63

C4OF-AT (auto. trans), only one assembly date is known for Fairlanes (late 1964), Cobras (1965), and Fairlanes (1965)

Assembly date of 4DE.

No markings.

During the 1965 and 1966 model years additional models of manual choke carburetors covering multiple applications through the 1967 model year were introduced.

The only two manual choke models I collect data on are the 1966-67 C6ZF-C and C6ZF-F manual choke models. I have these body markings recorded covering new car engines summer of 1965 through service replacement assemblies through 1969. There could be others.

11 • 5 • 63

The earliest carburetor assembly date of these two models in my file is 1965-July-Week 4.

The latest carburetor assembly date in my file was in 1969 but the owner threw the tag away before he told me month and week.

New old stock Ford parts and sometimes used Ford parts are offered on eBay®. There is a thread that follows offerings for crank timing gears on this site. Cloyes® sold new replacement parts through at least 2008 but I do not know if they still do.

Cloyes brand service replacements I have used:

S350 Camshaft Sprocket

S351 Crankshaft Sprocket

C358 Timing Chain

Appendix I in Bob's book itemizes engine part applications and numbers for them.

Engineering number (a.k.a. casting number) of the raw casting, no. One engineering casting design determined the master molds used to make the raw casting. My understanding is that everyday castings were selected, inspected for defects, a small area was ground, and a hardness test was performed in the area just ground. If the part passed the requirements for becoming a HP289 part they received a orange paint mark and were machined as a HP289 part.

Be aware that ground down areas and a mark that looks like a hardness tester made it can be faked, as can the paint color code.

Bob Mannel's online book subscription is the best single source of details of all 1962-69 small Ford V8 engines except 1969 Boss 302.

Home of the Ford Small Block V8 – Mustang and Ford Small Block V8, 1962-1969

The way Ford designed the HP289 engine in 1962 was good enough to go racing in all kinds of racing in multiple countries for years to come. The object was last long enough to win and not maximum power. Shelby American would blueprinted a near stock engine for endurance racing that would go as many as forty racing hours before a rebuild and then be ready to go again.

Steel but forged or just mill wrought I do not know.

Update. My research project, which started in 2022, has come a long way. I have defined the parts used by Shelby American to make complete installations in new Cobras and most of the parts in kits Ford Motor Company had Dearborn Steel Tubing Company compile between 1964 and 1966± that were is some way different than what new Cobras were equipped with.

Now I am interested in the purchase of any components originally installed by Shelby American in new Cobras. Not many Cobras were factory equipped with the 2-4V option. Based on the SAAC Registry I count 59 street cars and 2 competition cars. There were also a few engines sent to England to the Rootes Group to use in their factory race Tigers for the 1964 Le Mans effort. I could find no information about around ten Cobras more recent than decades ago, so we do not know the recent status of any original induction systems they might have still. (I have not found a completely intact system on a Cobra yet. I know of two partial ex-factory installed systems in storage that are being saved for Cobra restorations.) Otherwise, most of the factory installed systems were modified, split up, or nearly parted out over time. Some of the parts used in new Cobras were unique to new Cobras. Some parts in Ford kits were the same as what was used in new Cobras. If you have some old parts that MIGHT have come from a Cobra or an early Ford kit, I would like to get in contact with you if you will help with the research project. If you have something that really was a new Cobra part or exact match, I would be interested in discussing a potential purchase of them. If you have exact parts and do not wish to sell them and they are anything I have not already done reverse engineering drawings of, maybe you would briefly loan them to me. I have borrowed lots of original Cobra and 427 Cobra parts for study since the 1980s.

I am also interested in purchasing any AFB-3259S (the primary carburetor with automatic choke) and AFB-3258S (the secondary carburetor with no choke system) dated as being made in 1963.

Sample of what I mean by reverse engineering part drawing is attached.

Thanks for reading.

Dan